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"Curious Observations re: Karma"

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Scary (286 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-24-00, 05:14 PM (Pacific)
"Curious Observations re: Karma"
First, a disclaimer: I have not found any solutions to how karma affects the game. These are just some interesting points I have learned in my investigations:

(1) Males and females both have a theoretical starting karma of 0 to 19. Goofing around, I tried running Bane in a window. This slows down the speed of the program, so I don't recommend it, but one thing I noticed thanks to this slow down: during character generation, when one is "casting" karma, the sequence for males and females runs from 0 to 19. Although I have never yet succeeded in casting a male with 19 karma or a female with 0 karma, these are theoretical possibilities.

(2) Karma is much more than a one-byte value. A character's starting karma determines a whole block of bytes in the character's record (from approximately offset 360 to 391 from the start of the character's name, if I've counted right). These bytes all have the same value depending upon starting karma -- raising karma during the game does not appear to raise them. Furthermore, the value of these bytes does not increase linearly with karma; instead, it forms a bell curve:

Starting Karma Karma Block Value
0 4
1 8
2 12
3 16
4 20
5 24
6 28
7 32
8 36
9 40
10 36
11 32
12 28
13 24
14 20
15 16
16 12
17 8
18 4
19 0

(3) These values carry over to CODS, too. In fact, a CODS character has even more bytes in its "karma block." If the character's karma changed during Bane, the "karma block" values will be adjusted to the level appropriate for that karma. Just for kicks, a raised a character's karma to 20 in Bane before importing. The karma-block value after importing was something like 250 or 255.

(4) The moral of this story: if you want to experiment about the effect of karma, you can't just change one byte. Good luck.

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rbrown (900 posts) Click to EMail rbrown Click to send private message to rbrown Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-25-00, 10:58 AM (Pacific)
1. "Bane In a Window?"
"Goofing around, I tried running Bane in a window. This slows down the speed of the program ..."

How did you manage that? The rest of us have to run in DOS mode, no window. I have to use a DOS 6.2 boot disk.

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Scary (286 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-26-00, 08:46 AM (Pacific)
2. "RE: Bane In a Window?"
I have to run CODS in DOS mode. With a little tinkering, I am usually able to run Bane under Windows. Don't push me for too many details of how I do this. I'm not quite sure myself. Usually, what I've done is to set the program properties to "prevent MS-DOS-based program from detecting windows." At the moment, however, I am using the default setting of the shortcut that comes in the file ("WIZARDRY6"), and it is working fine. (In the past, I have loaded Bane and used the WIZARDRY6 shortcut instead of creating my own, and it has NOT worked. Who can fathom the mysterious ways of the computer?)
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apsen (91 posts) Click to EMail apsen Click to send private message to apsen Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-28-00, 09:02 AM (Pacific)
3. "RE: Bane In a Window?"
I can run Bane or CODS in a window as soon as I disable
sound using config program.
(set sound card to none or something like that)
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ogre -ur (0 posts) Click to EMail ogre%20-ur Click to send private message to ogre%20-ur Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-26-01, 12:59 PM (Pacific)
4. "RE: Curious Observations re: Karma"
I unfortunatley have a very bad habit of invoking the Ankhs of
Purity rather than selling/dropping them. I usually end up with a
bunch of either very licky or very hyper characters. For the most part all 6 of my characters will be Karma of 20 or at least
all at 18 or better. I have never seen a problem with this. Occassionally when I import to CoDS I will un-Karma somebody just
to get somebody 'mellow'. I HAVE got to get a phone line at home!
This library system drives me c r a z y.
Ogre
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farl (43 posts) Click to EMail farl Click to send private message to farl Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-16-04, 06:06 AM (Pacific)
5. "RE: Curious Observations re: Karma"
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-04 AT 05:00 AM (Pacific)

quote:
(2) Karma is much more than a one-byte value. A character's starting karma determines a whole block of bytes in the character's record (from approximately offset 360 to 391 from the start of the character's name, if I've counted right). These bytes all have the same value depending upon starting karma -- raising karma during the game does not appear to raise them. Furthermore, the value of these bytes does not increase linearly with karma; instead, it forms a bell curve:
(table omitted)

Maybe Mad gods wizardry vii viewer can shed some light onto your observations. I examined the guild characters in CoDS and the NPCs' attitude towards these characters. Your figures exactly match, that means, the karma of the character corresponds to the (initial) attitude of all NPCs towards this character (the table value right to the karma value).

There is one notable exception. Humans get an attitude penalty of 4, regardles if they are at the high end or low end of the bell curve.

Since you stated that the figures are transferred to Wizardry 7, I believe that my observation works vice versa.

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Llevram (5022 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-16-04, 08:45 AM (Pacific)
6. "Karma 'block'"
Most attributes occupy one byte in the saved game file or roster. The karma, for whatever reason occupies that whole range (or block) of bytes that was mentioned.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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farl (43 posts) Click to EMail farl Click to send private message to farl Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-17-04, 01:06 AM (Pacific)
8. "RE: Karma 'block'"
Quote:
Most attributes occupy one byte in the saved game file or roster. The karma, for whatever reason occupies that whole range (or block) of bytes that was mentioned.

Speculation: There are 41 NPCs listed in mad gods wizardry VII viewer. If the karma block comprises 41 bytes, it could contain the base attitudes of these NPCs towards the character.
But you said, the bytes of that block all have the same value. Why should programmers complicate matters, when a single value does the job? Maybe, if my speculation is right, a more complex scheme was first planned, but was dropped in the course of developing the game, and the block remained.


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Scary (286 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-17-04, 12:31 PM (Pacific)
10. "RE: Curious Observations re: Karma"
Wow, it was a surprise to see this topic surface, again. I'll have to check out Mad God's viewer. Can someone post a link?
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Dragon2k (800 posts) Click to EMail Dragon2k Click to send private message to Dragon2k Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-16-04, 05:14 PM (Pacific)
7. "RE: Curious Observations re: Karma"
(1) Males and females both have a theoretical starting karma of 0 to 19. Goofing around, I tried running Bane in a window. This slows down the speed of the program, so I don't recommend it, but one thing I noticed thanks to this slow down: during character generation, when one is "casting" karma, the sequence for males and females runs from 0 to 19. Although I have never yet succeeded in casting a male with 19 karma or a female with 0 karma, these are theoretical possibilities.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've noticed, in Wiz Gold, that females have a +1 karma, going from 1-19, while males are 0-18
when you choose female, notice the karma value is now 1, before selecting a class. I have rolled a few females with 19 karma, and a few males with 18 and 0 karma.

btw, DOSBox emulator does allow you to slow down the game, via Ctrl-F11, and if done enough times will probably slow the game down enough to roll a 0 karma female or 19 karma male.

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Scary (286 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-17-04, 12:29 PM (Pacific)
9. "RE: Curious Observations re: Karma"
Yes, and that's what you would expect, from the manual (+1 karma in partial compensation for -2 strength). The point of my observation is that, at least while "casting" karma, the numbers range from 0 to 19 for both sexes. That being said, I think I should revise my initial statement that a 19-karma male or 0-karma female were theoretically possible (as starting characters, that is; both are possible with the appropriate special items): I suspect that the numbers displayed while "casting" karma, i.e., before you hit "enter" to generate the character's karma, may have NO relation to the karma number. They may just be there to make you THINK that somehow WHEN you press "enter" will make a difference in the character's karma.

I don't know; it's just food for thought.

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