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"Wiz8 - review"

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Kuli (Guest) (145 posts) Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-28-06, 05:28 AM (Pacific)
"Wiz8 - review"
Hey Folks,
here: http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=138 is a nice and long nostalgia-review on Wiz8. It says that it is probably the last "real" CRPG that there ever was.

Shame there will be no Wiz9!

Best regards
Kuli

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-28-06, 08:09 AM (Pacific)
1. ""I'm not dead yet""
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-06 AT 08:14 AM (Pacific)

I still have hope ... I just need a little more skill and a lot more money and Wiz 9 could be a reality

... Just started reading the article the article refers too ... is this the same game? A "dungeon crawler" ? "Rushed release"? "Full of bugs and balance issues"?

Huh? I think the real story will be coming soon, as our "cone of silence" expires (all those that got to be beta testers). Or has it already expired?

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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nomad (43 posts) Click to EMail nomad Click to send private message to nomad Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-28-06, 11:20 AM (Pacific)
2. "RE: "I'm not dead yet""
Read the article - pretty good actually. So Rick, when do we start the Wiz 9 project?
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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-29-06, 06:58 PM (Pacific)
5. "RE: "I'm not dead yet""
Well, I wish the game programming class I was currently taking was going to go into 3D ... but we are not, just2D stuff. There was a little talk from the instructor of adding a class to go over just 3D games ... sign me up!

Even though the class is in Java (not the best language for games), it has been fun and I have learned a bit (and met one of the Second Life developers).

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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Kuli (Guest) (145 posts) Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-28-06, 11:25 PM (Pacific)
3. "RE: "I'm not dead yet""
I've only playes with patch 1.2.4 (?), so I've never encountered any bugs (the only repeatable one is that the game crashes, if the Behemoth is it by a nuclear blast). As far as I remember, the original game was broken, as ascension peak could not be entered (?).

The "rushed release" may refer to the many unfinished quests in the game, although the reason rather was the lack of money than the lack of time. The outcome is the same

And please, Llevram, check the date when the beta testers are allowed to speak freely about the testing. That will be very interesting!

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-29-06, 06:52 PM (Pacific)
4. "Ask away"
I just checked and actualy the NDA expired last year (Aug/Sep 2000 + 5 years).

So, what did you want to know ... ($5 an answer )

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rbrown (2 posts) Click to EMail rbrown Click to send private message to rbrown Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-30-06, 01:08 PM (Pacific)
6. "RE: Ask away"
Umm ... everything !!

Were there any major changes from the first version you downloaded to the version that hit the market ? Areas added or removed for example. Npc's that appeared or vanished, etc.

How did the Ascension Peak crash get past the beta testers ? Were you pressured for time and just never got to the peak ?

Did you start all your games at the Monastery, or could you choose a place to visit and test ? Could you boost levels artificially so you could get into a difficult area sooner ?

More questions to follow, after I fix a scanner problem at one of the schools.

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-30-06, 04:32 PM (Pacific)
7. "And the answer is ..."
... or answers are ...

Complete -
No major changes from what we first got ... the game was pretty much done, as beta tesing should imply. One excpetion may be the retro dungeons ... I did not find them in beta testing, so I assume that was added afterwards - but could be wrong.

Peak -
No, we got to the peak in plenty of time ... and ascended (or at least I did). I assume the bug was from a last minute tweak or a new build that did not pick up a previous fix for that issue. As I recall, it had to do with some in game camera logic ... about the ground shaking effect (to make it look like the ground is shaking).

Monastery -
At first yes, we always started at the Monastery. Then as things progressed, we were instructed to play our various Wizardry 7 saves to get the varying starting points (if we had them). No, we were not given any way to boost ... someone could have looked into editing at that time, to do so, but that would have taken time away from playing/testing the game (so I did not).

My features - unique critters
I was testing during the time that Wizards & Warriors came out, so was playing both at one point (gave up on W&W after a while). One of the things I noticed that was different between the two games was the "cookie cutter" replication of monsters.

In W&W, when you encounter a group of things, they are all identical. Hit a group of rogues with a Flame Drop and watch the "Roxbury boys" start dancing ... all to the same tune. The all react at the same instant and move exactly the same.

In Wiz 8 (beta), I noticed that there was variation: some rougues were left-handed, some right handed, within a single group. Not a big deal, but a nice touch. In discussing this with a friend (Marc), one of us came up with the idea of additional variance.

This is especially noticeable with a group of the various weeds (Crimson Poppy, Rank weed, etc.). The suggestion made was to vary the cadence, tempo, range, etc. that the monsters move, when idle. Take a look next time you have a group of weeds and watch two of them ... they swing back and forth at different rates.

My features - stop motion
I noted when trying to target individual bats at a distance, that between them being small and flapping up and down, they were very difficult to target. So, I suggested they give us a way to stop the motion, while in combat, to make targeting easier. I don't recall why, but it seemed a difficult request (to implement) at the time I made it .... so I made the additional suggestion that they just use the CTRL key. They said that was such a good suggestion, that I would have got a T-Shirt .. if they had T-shirts to give out

So, that feature is all mine and the one I am most proud of.

My unimplemented features - couch diving
I thought it would be funny if, in the Monastery, you could search the couches (up by where you get the key to the bell room) and find some extra coin. I imagined a popup blurb about "you go couch-diving and come up with 50 gold" would have been in keeping with the Wizardy humor. Alas, this suggestion did not make it in the game.

I'll have to check the old PC to see if my reports to Sir-Tech are still around and there are any other interesting tid-bits.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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rbrown (2 posts) Click to EMail rbrown Click to send private message to rbrown Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-01-06, 02:42 PM (Pacific)
8. "RE: And the answer is ..."
HITTING CONTROL MAKE THE BATS STOP FLAPPING ?????

You learn something new every day in this game.

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Marc (109 posts) Click to EMail Marc Click to send private message to Marc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-03-06, 12:31 PM (Pacific)
12. "RE: And the answer is ..."
>HITTING CONTROL MAKE THE BATS STOP
>FLAPPING ?????


Ouch.

Marc

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-02-06, 09:59 PM (Pacific)
9. "Couple other things I recall ..."
Bugs I found - falling through floors

I noticed that whenever you were on a moving platform that changed your height/position (such as an elevator in Arnika bank or in Trynton trees) ... if you moved "too much" while it was in motion, you would fall through the floor (and be crushed or otherise die). That was another difficult bug to tackle (and may not be completely fixed), I thnk due to the physics engine they incorporated (and how it integrated in their code).

Bugs I found - falling piece of small wood crushes your party
in the mine shaft area, there is a small piece of wood you touch (that then falls over) to get into the cart. If you stand in the right spot, it will crush your party

This led to a bit of discussion (again about the physics engine) and that a death such as this should not happen in Iron Man mode ... I don't think that ever got implemented though.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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nomad (43 posts) Click to EMail nomad Click to send private message to nomad Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-03-06, 05:43 AM (Pacific)
10. "RE: Couple other things I recall ..."
Both of those bugs are still there, but neither one of them is any real problem. I watched some HLL groups the last couple of days, and I was surprised to see that indeed, some or left handed and some are right handed. And when they are not moving they do not move together. Funny, I never noticed it before, but now I know about it, I see it all the time. Good work Rick.
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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-03-06, 07:55 AM (Pacific)
11. "Still there, but ..."
... not as bad as it was in beta (for the falling through the floor thing) There are other events that cause this as well, I noted a while back ... like a character recognizing a group of monsters while your trynton elevator is going up to meet them.

I think the whole thing there was timing and detection ... some piece of code was checking every so often to see where the party was and when the floor was. If you did things like spin around (which I did in Trynton to get a better look at stuff) ... you would fall right away ... it seemed to through off the timing of the check and/or move the party slightly. They did something to address this, but as you say, it was not a 100% fix.

As to my good work - thanks It reminds me of the Futurama episode where Bender plays God (not because I feel like God, but becuase of what he learned):

When you do something right, people won't be able to tell you did anything at all (or something close to that)

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Kuli (Guest) (145 posts) Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-05-06, 00:22 AM (Pacific)
13. "Couple of questions"
Ooh, sweet, finally we get some insight:

- Was there any discussion about the way "the little things" are worked on? What I sadly missed was more comments on the gaming situation (for instance, a message such as the one about the thiefs in the upper monastery "Obviously, the thiefs had no problems with..."). In Wiz 6+7 there were plenty of such comments, which added immensly to the atmosphere. In Wiz 8, there were almost none of these (partly not needed due to improved graphics). Was that intentional or lack of time?
- What was the original intention of the condemned area in Arnika?
- Were you allowed to comment on the story or just the game balance, monster drop rates, etc?
- Any other items or creatures that you suggested?
- Any more "behind the scenes"-info is appreciated

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-05-06, 09:02 AM (Pacific)
14. "Like I said ...."
... the game was pretty well "done" when we got to start testing. Most of the decisions were made, but we were free to comment on anything and everything (I really need to go back and look for my reports ... I know I said a lot, but can't recall much of it now).

What is this talk of rushed development again ;-? It was like 10 years in the making

- What was the original intention of the condemned area in Arnika?
Not sure - we were not told. I thought it was just supposed to be a war-torn area, from the Savant's arrival.

- Any other items or creatures that you suggested?
Not that I recall. I did talk to the #1 beta tester and he did suggest an item or two that got added. One I specifically recall was the enchanted waazashi ... he saw there was a lack of any advanced second hand weapons for the Samurai (and Ninja ?) class. I think this was added to the "under the waterfall" loot.

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