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"Reports on wizards and warriors"

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dj on holidays -ur (2 posts) Click to EMail dj%20on%20holidays%20-ur Click to send private message to dj%20on%20holidays%20-ur Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-28-00, 00:26 AM (Pacific)
"Reports on wizards and warriors"
So whats the whole shebang like, people who've played it enough to judge so far?

Major concerns for me include: character creation and versatility, how useful magic looks (in so far as in some games you just end up totally barring magic because everything is immune to it or whatever) , the combat system and i dunno anything else yall care to throw in

d

ps aussie aussie aussie oioioi ;[

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DrSlop (297 posts) Click to EMail DrSlop Click to send private message to DrSlop Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-28-00, 05:56 PM (Pacific)
1. "RE: Reports on wizards and warriors"
I've only played it very briefly (about 2 hours), so my observations are very prelimenary -- but I must say that while I'm enjoying it so far, my first reactions are somehwat mixed. On the one hand, it really "feels" like a Wizardry in a lot of ways: an incredible variety in different race/class combinations, but at the same time the feeling that from wherever you start all of you characters will eventually become supremely powerful. Unlike Wizardry, you must choose between only 4 classes to start from, but you can move into more elite classes pretty quickly. This game is impossible to play without class switching, which is fine by me, but all the strategy of which path to take each character on is still there. Also, every race is really distinct with different abilites (though some of them are far more powerful than others). Like W 6/7, it's pretty much a hack-n-slash (though frequency of random monsters can be adjusted)held together with a cliched story that has tons of neat twists and flourishes that make it a lot of fun to play. There also seems to be a fairly wide variety of different things to do (many more "side quests" than in Wizardry 6/7, both of which were pretty much just one quest). NPCs also seem to act very much like in Wizardry (though I haven't seen them travel around yet).

On the negative side, well, it really "feels" like a wizardry. That is, the interface is pretty clunky and seems to have inherited a lot of Wizardry's deficits in that department: namely you need to click your way through far too many menus to get things done. This is especially a problem during combat since the game only goes into turn-based mode when the monsters have initiated melee attacks -- which means that you can be fumbling through menus, etc. when all of a sudden a bunch of monsters rush up to you, get a first round of devastating hits in, all the while you're trying to click your way through a maze of menus. Also, nothing (not even levelling up) pauses the game, so you can be attacked by monsters while trying to level up your heroes -- which means you either take your chances or make the long trek back to town -- kind of annoying. Also, in character creation, if you get a bad roll, you STILL have to finish making your character (or click your way back to the beginning) -- there's no reroll button! Oh, and the trap system is somewhat dumbed down from Wizardry -- basically you sit there and watch as your thief tries to disarm the trap step by step, with you being able to cancel the attempt if you see that the trap is about to go off.

So, my overall verdict after a very short time of play is that its a really fun game with a good deal of the Bradley magic, but one that is very much hampered by a less than streamlined interface. The graphics were fine -- they showed the fact that the game was started quite a few years ago, but they do their job nicely and I have no complaints about that -- they still have that same great cartoony feel from Wizardry. It remains to be seen if the story will hold up over more hours of playing, and if its just a matter of getting used to the interface for it to become second nature, so I'll report back after a few more days.

OE

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Llevram (5022 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 02:10 AM (Pacific)
2. "Thanks for the report"
It kind of confirms some fears I had. I said a while back that we'd be pissed if Wiz 8 came out and it was just another wiz 7 with updated graphics, which I was more afraid this game would be. I think they probably took a mis-step in not having a demo.

Yes, I agree, you have to give the interface a few days to "sink in", to see if it really is workable in th elong term or not. But they have other issues, like the mouse Y-axis thing that a demo would probably have brought to light (among your other issues).

Please do keep us posted. I am waiting to see what my guides say about this game ... those being how soon and how far the price drops. To me, those are some of the best indicators of ho wgood a game really is.

Tools for your Wizardry(r) toolkit

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Jay (112 posts) Click to EMail Jay Click to send private message to Jay Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 03:05 AM (Pacific)
3. "RE: Reports on wizards and warriors"
I played it all day yesterday. (I took the day off work!)

I like the game alot so far. I have to agree with the good Dr. on most all of his observations. I think with more experience using both the mouse and keyboard navigating will become much easier.

While creating characters, I stumbled onto a cheat. This is exactly like Wiz1-5. When you create a character they start with 200 gold pieces. So Character A is the character you are going to keep. Character B is the one that you created but you dont like them. So you place both characters in your party. Then you delete Character B. All of his/hers gold goes to Character A. Character A now has 400 gps. I did this multiple times trying to create my ultimate party, I ended up with a few thousand gold pieces. It takes time but you could end up with everything you need to adventure and some extra in your pocket. It kinda make getting gold obsolete.

I am already addicted. I like the idea of having a town and being able to take multiple parties out into the world where they can interact with my dead or left parties. This reminds me of Wiz 1-5.

As for seeing NPC's walking around. Go to the cemetary and you will find one that is walking around. You can follow him after you talk to him.

The 3D world is cool. It is like Doom with better graphics.

One of the downsides that I see is that I can't figure out how the turn based fighting works. It seems like I am always getting attacked while I try to make decisions. However, this is probably operator error.

I would recommend this game if you are looking for something to do until Wiz8.

I will keep ya posted.

Jay

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Llevram (5022 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 03:15 AM (Pacific)
4. "Its good to see you are ... "
(taking off work to play)
.. keeping your priorities straight

Tools for your Wizardry(r) toolkit

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Marc (33 posts) Click to EMail Marc Click to send private message to Marc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 06:38 AM (Pacific)
5. "RE: Reports on wizards and warriors"
I agree with most the observations so far. Only play about 2 hours last night.

As for the fighting, I had a problem with that too. My first encounter, (on the way to a nearby lake) I met several trolls(?) who politely came up to me and beat the snot out of a couple of my PCs. Had to run away. Sorta had a FPS feel to it. There is a setting in the game control menu that says,
"Realtime.........Slowtime" or something to that affect. I'm gonna mess with that when I get home tonight and see if that helps.

Then again we could always RTFM.

Thanks for the cheat.....back to the Inn.


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Llevram (5022 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 07:05 AM (Pacific)
6. "HPs answer to Real/Phased combat"
There is a fairly long and detailed answer posted on the HP board.

Basically it seems that moving is considered your "turn" and if you move too far, you throw things back into real time. This would seem OK if you had som indication that you are about to cross the threshold (i.e some indication of how far you could move before you throw it back into real-time).

Tools for your Wizardry(r) toolkit

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RONA (76 posts) Click to EMail RONA Click to send private message to RONA Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-29-00, 10:49 AM (Pacific)
7. "Adaptive phasing and poor rat eater"
Besides monsters aproaching and making the first strike I like adaptive phasing very much so far. It basically allows you to make game as realtime or as turn based as you want, pretty cool!

I miss keyboard shortcuts for inventory potions and others.

I can not use hardware acceleration because game keeps locking computer with that enabled.

Also there is "cute" crypt keeper who is dieing for a nice fat rat. So the sad thing is I can not grab dead rat and give it to him, such a pitty ;(

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DrSlop (297 posts) Click to EMail DrSlop Click to send private message to DrSlop Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-30-00, 07:47 AM (Pacific)
8. "RE: HPs answer to Real/Phased combat"
This all makes sense when he explains it, the problem is that it doesn't really work very well while playing the game, because it basically insures that any spell-casting/ranged-attacking monster will get a first strike against your party, which can be really devastating... They have an unfair advantage,they are generated by the same "brain" that generates our positions, while us poor humans have to constantly search the monitor for them.

If you MUST keep real-time in, here's what I would suggest:

1) Let US choose when to enter turn-based mode, not the monsters. This "you're always in adaptive turn-based, but just can't tell" doesn't help me -- whether the underlying model is turn-based or not, it plays like real-time.

2) After the first round, have a "repeat" button that I can press once and have every character repeat their actions. Make this function semi-intelligent, so that if I'm fighting a group of bats, and hit the repeat function, but the bat that my fighter was attacking is already dead, have him attack another bat.

3) (I'm not sure how easily I'll be able to explain this) Create a "custom menu" for each character, depending on his past actions. So, if my priest attacks with a mace, create a little attack button that shows up at the bottom of the screen every time its my priest's turn. If on the next round my priest casts "heal," add a little healing spell button to the menu on the bottom -- do this for each character, so that eventually all the actions they use often can be accessed with just one click during combat.

Ah, if only I were a game designer...

OE

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elrond (83 posts) Click to EMail elrond Click to send private message to elrond Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-30-00, 07:50 PM (Pacific)
9. "RE: HPs answer to Real/Phased combat"
I'll agree with everything everyone has said so far, and add in my 2 cents. The interface could definitely use some serious work. Another thing I'd like, would be a strafe on key, like alt or something. I use the arrow keys on the keyboard to run around, and i'd like something that would let me sidestep, without directly using the sidestep left/right keys. There are definitely not enough shortcuts. There really needs to be a 'done' shortcut. i hate having to move my mouse alllll the way over to the left hand side of the screen to save (i run a laptop). I'm gonna have to jack a different one from work to see exactly how pretty the 3d graphics are. I'm currently running in software rendering mode. I wouldn't call this the prettiest of games, but I wouldn't be playing wizardry games if I really cared that much about graphics. Actually, I've always preferred sprites to polygons. I still haven't quite figured out the whole real time/turn based thing. I wish there'd be something that would put it in time based as soon as monsters appeared or something, i really don't like real time combat. Oh yeah, it's annoying to have to constantly click on a monster to attack him. There should be an attack button or something, like there was in Might and Magic. Some of those monsters are hard to target, and the pointer keeps on changing back and forth.

Don't know if it's just my system, but this game doesn't seem to be very windows friendly. I can not alt-tab back and forth between the game and windows without having some problems. Basically once i return, the mouse pointer doesn't update until i click on something, so i have to close the game and restart.

On the plus side:
So far I really like the character generation and development. I think the thing that will keep you from having super characters here is the fact that you can't change back to a class you already were previously. Also, when you change class, you do keep your stat points, which makes more sense. Seems like they were trying to restrict class changing enough so it wouldn't be abused quite as bad, although you do definitely have the potential to get some super characters, but it takes much more planning from the beginning, imho. I've basically already plotted out a course of class steps that i want my characters to take.

Regarding the gold problem/cheat, I noticed that too. Same thing crossed my mind: hey, this is just like wiz 1 However, I've tried to be good, and not exploit this. I've only looted off characters that I had around 'til i replaced them with a better rolled character. I find it easier to hit the back button 4 times or so during character generation, instead of going all the way through with it, when getting a bad roll. On another note, you can guarantee your starting character maximum hitpoints by, hitting the back button 'til you get back to the stat distribution page. Once you redistribute the stats, and hit next, it'll reroll the hitpoints. Oh yeah, the thing that initially threw me, was that the base statistics are no longer constant. So now, you have 2 random variables, the base statistics and the bonus points. Possibly humans do have constant base characteristics, i don't remember exactly

Definitely a lot of side quests, basically there seem to always be a million things to go do I'm liking the game overall a lot, although it does have its problems. Mainly in the interface. It's been a while since I've gotten to play an old school styled rpg (not many out), so i'm pretty happy..

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Jay (112 posts) Click to EMail Jay Click to send private message to Jay Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-03-00, 10:43 AM (Pacific)
10. "Update: Game is getting much better..."
Thought I would give a little update on my experiences W&W.

I am liking the game much more. Leave it up to D.W. to put out a game with a fantastic story line. I have been adventuring for a couple of days now and my characters are at level 4. Around level 2 I joined my Warriors, Wizards, and Priest to thier repsective Guilds. This is a must. My characters can now get better items and can gain skills faster. I love it. The puzzles are challenging enough that I had to inquire another message board for help, but they are easy enough that I am not getting discouraged.

I think everyone is going to have problems with combat. The interface is tricky at first but with practice I am finally getting pretty good at it. I can now move quickly enough to cast spells from a distance so I can get 2 to 3 hits in before most enemies get in range. The 3D spells are very cool. My first attempt at a "Firestorm" type spell kicked my but because I walked right into it trying to get my opponent with my axe.

I do have one dissappointment. The manual. It is really hard to read by computer light when your wife is asleep in the same room!! Actually, I think the manual is lacking. I think they should have taken alittle more time to improve the manual to make it easier to reference and use. It is very limited. For instance, I want to create one party and adventure with them the whole game. So of course I would like to plan ahead. But the book does not help me to do this. I think they could have added more to it to help you start out.

Other than that the game is great. I am excited every day to get off work and play. I have not had any buggy issues either. Hope this helps.

Jay

P.S.
Rick, would it be possible to start a W&W forum. I really respect the views here on your board and I would like to discuss this game with the people here. I have a hard time trusting the "strangers" on the other discussion forums. Of course, if this is a conflict of interests with Sirtech and W8, I totally understand. Thanks a million.

Jay

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Llevram (5022 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-03-00, 11:17 AM (Pacific)
11. "The benefits of being a loose cannon :)"
No, I have no problems with confilct of interest with anyone
Personally, I still question the benefit of having 4 boards to support one game. With the HP, Ironworks and the Vault all having boards revolving around this game (and seeing people cross post to all of them), I can't see what good it would do to add one more place.

Don't get me wrong, this is *our* board and if we want it, let me know and I will add it. And I do feel as you do ... I trust our opinions much more than *strangers*

Tools for your Wizardry(r) toolkit

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Asrial (215 posts) Click to EMail Asrial Click to send private message to Asrial Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-03-00, 02:30 PM (Pacific)
12. "What? Just 4?"
There's at least a billion boards for Final Fantasy VIII <grins>

I put in another vote for a Wizards and Warriors message board here.

I too value the opinion of those who post here, "more" than the opinion of those I've never seen before in my life. Plus, this system is easier to manage than HP's.

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elrond (83 posts) Click to EMail elrond Click to send private message to elrond Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-03-00, 06:48 PM (Pacific)
13. "RE: What? Just 4?"
I voted for a board way back when this question first came up, so you know where I stand Regarding the 4 other boards though...well, let's start with Vault Network. Hmm...the reason why you created this board in the first place, so better yet, let's not go there. 2nd, the Heuristic Park board. Now while it is the 'main' board, seeing as how it is done by the same company, i gotta say, their board software seriously bites. I hate forums which use that software, it's so freakin' annoying. To be fair, I haven't actually dug up the Ironworks board, 'cuz I'm just lazy. Perhaps the main point, is I prefer conversing with the people here Ok, I'll stop bitching...I promise.
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