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"Various Questions (please help)"

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-03-08, 08:17 PM (Pacific)
"Various Questions (please help)"
Hi everyone, I've never played Wizardry 8, but I've played Wizardry 7 for years. I was just hoping you good folks might answer some questions for me.

1. I am currently playing one more time through 7, my old party was: Raw Ninja/Lord, 2 Fae Ninja, Fel Monk, Dra Ninja/Valkyrie, and Elf Bard/Samuri. I change all the slashed classes over pretty early on, I just did it to get Ninjutsu and Kirijutsu for everyone in my party (plus music for my Samuri). It was a pretty good party, lots of healing, spell damage, melee, good item usage too. There are new items and skills and so on in 8 thought, right? And every class has specialties? So are there certain classes now that most people see as "need to have"?

2. What transfers over from 7 to 8? Is there a certain percentage of your skill points? What about all that stats that I've leveled to 19 or 20? Certain items? Gold?

3. I've read that there are aditional characters you can have in your group (Vi, an Umpani, whatever), do the have classes to start with? Do you choose the class? And most importantly, in combat, do you pick what they do?

4. You can be in the middle of a fight and have a group attack from behind? I think I read that. Do the people in the back then become capable of fighting melee?

5. And the Personal skills are different now too? You get them buy building up certain skills or stats? Does it even matter who I give them to in 7 then?

6. Correct me if I am wrong. You can switch between ranged and melee withough taking a turn? But not if you're using a cursed item? So if I wanted to switch between a CoC and some ninja stars or something, I'd have to constantly removing curse?

7. If I import a party, is it still possible to get a gadgeteer? And do they have a spell book?

8. Is having the music sckill still enough to let a non-bards use instruments?

Any other information you guys couple provide me about the changes from 7 to 8 would help, especially as it would pertain to an imported party. Thanks!

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-03-08, 11:08 PM (Pacific)
1. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
1. Bishops can learn every spell and make pure casters obsolete. I usually have two, Alc-Pri and Mag-Psi, that each has the spells I consider important. Of course they learn from all magic schools but it makes things easier to concentrate in two schools. It is perfectly possible to have only one Bishop, but it requires some training.

A Bard is much more powerful than in W 7, a must have. First time through you should have a Ranger to find all hidden items.

Then the choice is up to you. Rogues and Fighters can deal huge amounts of damage. Hybrids on the other hand help with spellcasting, Samurai seems to be the best fighter of them (well, I haven't used a faerie Ninja anymore).

2. See here:
http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html

3. Vi, for example is a Valkyrie. They do come ready, but you will have a full control of their development and acting.

4. You'll soon learn to hug walls... The first rule is not to let monsters surround you. The back row is usually spellcasters. Striking from behind means double damage and you want to avoid that.

5. Expert skills are built on attributes, STR etc. For example, you want to raise a magic user's intelligence to 100 to open up the resp. expert skill.

6. Right. I don't bother with cursed weapons. But a Bishop can repeatedly uncurse CoC and then your Ninja can use thrown weapons until the monsters close in.

7. You must change profession (a new character would lose much in statistics). I have changed a Ninja to Gadgeteer, since their skill overlap. No spellbooks, they resemble somewhat a certain McGyver. But their gadgets have spell effects.

8. You should have a pure Bard (class changing isn't what it used to be). Later, after level 18 you can consider profession changing.

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rbrown (2 posts) Click to EMail rbrown Click to send private message to rbrown Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-04-08, 11:52 AM (Pacific)
2. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
For question 2 I would add:

The stuff that is equipped is usually replaced with inferior stuff during transfer. Load up the personal carry stuff carefully. If you have 100 viper arrows, break it into 4 bundles carried by 4 players. Carry spares for everything. Drop your best armor and switch to high quality leathers.

Carry extra high-quality leathers, bishops and priests can wear them in Wiz 8.

Elven Bow and Great Bow and Wrist Rocket almost always transfer. The maximum skill points transferred is 20% of the Wiz 7 points. Everyone will transfer with enough experience points to upgrade to level 5 immediately.

The transfer teams will wind up at Monastery Beach, Umpani Base Camp or Trang headquarters. Umpani Base Camp is frendliest but it is a long walk to the next civilized place. Trang headquarters requires some puzzle-solving to get to a good vendor. The Monastery is a lot of fighting and a 3rd rate vendor but it is halfway between Arnika and Umpani Base Camp. A long half way.

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-05-08, 10:41 AM (Pacific)
3. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-08 AT 10:43 AM (Pacific)

Flamesryke's site explains why some items tranfer and some don't. Items I like to carry over are: Siren's Wail, Ankhs of Might, Mystic Spears("+2"), Sword of Hearts, Book of Barriers etc. Note that you can import high level stix and ammunition. And then... fill the still vacant slots with heavy Heal. I figured this only lately; now my imported parties will get 40 000 gold from selling excess potions...

Races can be a problem: namely, the lowly Hobbit rules in W 8, yes, the one who wasted 14 points in personality in W 7! If you don't need high Piety, you should choose Hobbit... That is, magic users should be Elves or Faeries, Monks Humans - and Fighters Dracons, but everyone else a Hobbit - if you look at starting statistics. There may be other things to consider, but they get highest starting statistics.

PS. For a first-timer all three paths will be difficult, but Monastery must be the least difficult starting point.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-14-08, 07:06 PM (Pacific)
4. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Man, hobbits?? WTF? My Farie Ninjas were the bee's knees in 7, it sounds like they nerfed them pretty hardcore though. So it doesn't matter what my stats are at when I import them? What about rolling? In 7 you rolled your characters, if you got a good roll you could end up with an ultra-strong faerie.

And why human monks? I'm just curious, in 7 it hardly seems to matter what you make your characters as long as you had a good roll. And does this "martial arts" skill mean hand and feet?

I was just looking over the site you mentioned, it sounds like they take the base stats for race and class, then give you a bonus 9-10 for importing. If I understand this correctly the best thing for me to do would be to make all my characters racial strong and weak points the opposite of what's needed for the class, right? Like the faerie ninja, one of the highest stats a faerie has is the only stat a ninja doesn't need. Is this accurate?

You mentions bishops being able to wear leathers? What about a faerie bishop?

Ok, if I had a Lord in 7 that I got ninjitsu and kirijutsu for, would any of those skill points transfer?

The Journey Map kit is no more? The map is automatic? Is there still a mapping skill?

An of the RPC's, do any of them leave your party? I mean for reasons other than the areas they won't venture into.

And lastly, bards don't have mage spells anymore?

Thanks a lot for your help guys, I know I must seem like a never ending font of questions.

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-15-08, 11:01 AM (Pacific)
5. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
In W8 the basic stats are fixed and then you get an also fixed amount of extra points to use after you have chosen profession. So no more rolling - it's a relief, too. Imported characters will be boosted in prime attributes (INT, DEX, SEN for Ranger and so on). When you import the attribute values don't matter - but you better have all appropriate skills 100 or as near as possible. (Or if you read Flamestryke's site, you notice that high attribute values matter very slightly).

Why Human Monks? You must plan ahead. In a normal game you can easily raise only 2 - 3 attributes to 100 to open up the expert skills. In W7 we had to choose a race that lost as few points as possible when we changed professions. Now we have to look for a race and profession combinations which give high points in attributes we need. Monks need almost all attributes and I think Humans who get more starting points than any other race are best suited for them (others may disagree). Almost all hybrids can do without PIE and that's why Hobbit (PIE 30) is well suited for those professions. A magic user can do without STR, and then Faery (STR 25) is a good choice. If I want to raise, say, INT and PIE to 100, I choose a race that has high starting values in them.

Yes, Martial Arts is unarmed combat.

Faeries' choice of equipment is limited in the unmodded game, but still I will have one in my parties. The stat that a Ninja doesn't need? That would be personality. I suppose it has nothing to do with the new attribute, Senses.

Ninjutsu for a Lord? I checked my files. I have a Ranger importing Stealth, the equivalent. But it is greyed and I think the Ranger needs to spend a level in some profession that has stealth to get it active.

No more mapping skill, the unfairest of all skills. Just hit Tab and you will see the current map.

RPC:s are (almost completely) under your control. (Now what was the game where they could suddenly leave and take equipment you had given them with them?) I have a vague memory, though, that attacking their own race would have some odd consequences.

Bards don't have spells anymore. They have much more instruments now and are much more usable (even vital) than before.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-17-08, 04:39 PM (Pacific)
6. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
So making something like a lizaedman bishop, which in W7 would require a high roll, but once achieved would pretty much just end up with a character that had overall high stats wouldn't make a good import to W8? Is it like they take the race stats and just stack the class stats on top?

You mentioned mods, it there a mod to make the CoC not cursed? Because the way switching between melee and ranged sounds, it'd be nice if I didn't have to constantly decurse it.

I was looking at the RPCs, I was thinking about opting for Vi and some rat looking guy who was a gadgeteer, would those be viable options and does it take long to get them?

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-17-08, 10:12 PM (Pacific)
7. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Lizardman Bishop is a very good example of the new fixed numbers system: Attribute bonus table in the game manual shows that a Lizzie Fighter will get 50 bonus points but a Bishop will have - 40 points. An imported Bishop would have - 31 and that would mean appreticeship until level 7 and make him or her quite useless.

Actually there is, Daegans twists for Dodd's mod. But Dodd's mod could be described as almost impossible challenges to those that have mastered the basic game. Of course there is Mad God's editor, being cursed is just one tick in the editor. But I wouldn't do it. It doesn't feel right.

Vi is a good choice, she will go almost anywhere and is found early. The Gadgeteer has more restrictions and it takes more time to be able to use him, and a Gadgie in the party would be better choice. The best RPC would be RFS 81, an excellent fighter and will leave your party only once. Take anyone you think will be of help until you get Vi and RFS.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-04-08, 06:30 PM (Pacific)
9. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
RFS 81 is a monk who can't cast spells, right? Is he a better fighter than a normal monk? I would think there would have to be an offset. If I am importing a party though, I won't start with a gadgeteer, if I convert one of my existing characters after import, will he still get an omnigun? If I go that route, any class you'd recommend as the one I start with?

OK, not that I'm going to use a mod, but is there one that could change RFS 81 to a warrior IF for some reason I did want to? Just wondering. Although with his lack of ability to cast, I think I'd prefer him as such. And why doesn't removing the curse feel right, I mean, it seems to me it'd just keep me from having to do it manually with my Bishop all the time.

Avatar said that alchemists rule, does it have to be pure alchemist or could my ninja make potions too?

How annoying are my incessant questions?

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-05-08, 02:50 AM (Pacific)
10. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
In a normal game you should let RFS use his hands and feet and he will soon become an awesome killing machine. Put points in STR, DEX and SPD. Ninja, Bard and Rogue have some of the same skills than a Gadgeteer - especially if you think to let him pick locks.

I meant that changing CoC:s properties with an editor would feel like cheating to me, but everyone can do what he likes with his game. I always edit my new parties to have imported party's stats, but going beyond that would be cheating. I'm not sure what would happen if you tried to edit RFS' profession, since the game states that he may not change profession.

Alchemists rule, but a Bishop can do that and even more besides it. A Ninja or a Ranger can easily do the healing potions, too, but it takes a long time to get them that far that they really start to make big money.

Not at all annoying, I'm glad if I can be of any help.

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-05-08, 06:47 AM (Pacific)
11. "Yes, you get an omnigun ..."
... if you change class to a Gadgeteer.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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Avatar (86 posts) Click to EMail Avatar Click to send private message to Avatar Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Sep-21-08, 05:19 AM (Pacific)
8. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
RPC's for the most part have their own agendas So do not rely on a RPC to go where you want them to. The good thing is that you can take them anywhere but they will complain all the time they are in that area and they will take a 20 point hit on all stats while you are in that area. Be advised that alchemists rule in Wiz 8 because of an ability to mix potions to make better ones. This can net you much gold which you will need to buy the best armor and weapons and spell books. When it comes to using an item in battle it must be in your personal pack as opposed to the party pack. When you use a potion in battle as opposed to in thfield you are using it on either yourself or ine case of offensive potions the enemy.This means that in battle you can not use a healing potion on a teammate even if it in your pack. All thgat will happensis you will healb yourself.
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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-05-08, 02:57 PM (Pacific)
12. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
If I do change my character to an gadgeteer though, it'll lose points, right? And be at level 1 when everyone else is at level 5?
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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Oct-05-08, 09:09 PM (Pacific)
13. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
No, it will not lose any points as in W7. It will still have 13000 exp and all it's stats. The only difficulty may be meeting the requirements, say, it has only 50 somewhere and a Gadgeteer needs 55 (but it gets 6 points when it levels up, so that's manageable). You can check in the leveling screen which professions are available for every character and make your decision after that (you can go back and undo changes, unlike before).
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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-20-08, 02:49 PM (Pacific)
14. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Ok, ok, I know I never stop asking questions, I'm almost done, I promise!

1. In W7 You had the first 3 characters forming a front line with the latter 3 a back, has the group organization changed? I'm trying to figure what balance of fighter types VS caster types I'll need.

2. I think I understand the difference in class changing now. In order to change one of my imports into a gadgeteer they need similar stats, so what I'd need to do is find out what has the closest stats to a gadgeteer, right? And after I change it to a gadgeteer it'll still have the XP to get to level 5? ANy recomendations?

3. Flamestryke's website says that pure casters import with a max of 16 points a given school, does anyone know if it matters how many points a character has in that school?

4. So... is a warrior's damage output drastically higher than a lords? Higher than all highbrids?

5. I read that only rangers import with scouting, is that why someone said I needed one at least the first time through the game? If I imported a ranger and then changed it to something else, it would still have this skill, right? Would that eliminate a need for the ranger?

6. Do you feel the faerie's spell regen is worth the equipment limitations?

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-20-08, 11:35 PM (Pacific)
15. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-08 AT 11:59 AM (Pacific)

1. It's basicly the same, but you have flank positions and another back row. Keep in mind that you can easily recruit fighter types but not casters and that 2 Bishops will easily learn everything. (+ Bard, Gadgie and 2 Fighter types?) You will need to consider this: the front line of 3 will almost always be able to use short weapons but others will need extended or ranged weapons (or need to wait that someone comes to them). You could leave the front empty and put 5 characters in flank and middle position able to use short weapons and still have 3 positions in the back row (but then the weak back row is more vulnerable).

2. Bard, Rogue and Ninja are the closest. It'll still have the exp, but will reach only level 4 as a Gadgie. But it's not a big deal, it will gain levels fast.

3. Says Flamestryke: "skills import at 1/5 the value achieved at the end of CODS", (although 13 and 16 aren't 1/5) so anything less than 100 in W7 skills will lower your stats.

4. Actually a Rogue will always do double damage and can be (has been) better. A Fighter needs to berserk and will at first miss much. But still a Fighter is very good at dealing damage. A Lord is considered much weakened from earlier games.

5. I have tested this: scouting skill stops working. You could use Detect Secret - but as I noticed playing Dodd's mod, it can easily be forgotten at a wrong moment.

6. I don't have a fixed opinion about Faeries. You can well do without one. And spell regen isn't so important, since you can usually rest if you like. And still, you may well consider a Faerie spellcaster.

(PS. I have expressed this somewhere else: After the frustration of not getting my hints for W7 published about 15 years ago I'm only glad there is a forum where I can be of help.)

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-21-08, 06:36 PM (Pacific)
16. "Tie fighter formation"
1) You can get all characters to use short range weapons, if you so desire .... just load up the middle-left, middle, and middle-right quadrants. This allows all characters to use short range weapons as long as the opponent is directly in front (or behind) of the party.

5) As emeraldFN said, the skill will not advance once you change class to that is "closed" to that class.

6) That is up for you to decide ... RPG is all about making your choices and living with them

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-25-08, 02:53 PM (Pacific)
17. "RE: Tie fighter formation"
Ok, lets say I have 2 Bishops, Bard, Gadgie and 2 Fighter types, I'd obviously put the fighters up front and the bishops in back, but what would be the best places for the other two?

If my Gadgie starts as a ninja will it get to keep the stealth and/or crit skill?

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Llevram (5413 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-25-08, 07:40 PM (Pacific)
18. "Depends "
.. on their weapons and skills ... but I'd say in the middle.

You always keep skills, you just can't advance them if they are closed to your current class.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-26-08, 00:08 AM (Pacific)
20. "RE: Depends "
You keep skills?

Here's a thing a haven't had to think, since I very seldom do class-changing. Sometimes I change a Bard to a Rogue or Ninja (after she has enough skill to play all instruments). She can still use her instruments (perhaps on a lower level), that I know. But why can't a Ranger (with Scouting 20) turned into something else find anymore any of the hidden stones on the starting beach?

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nomad (43 posts) Click to EMail nomad Click to send private message to nomad Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Nov-25-08, 08:36 PM (Pacific)
19. "RE: Tie fighter formation"
I would end up with the bishops in the back, a fighter on each side and the Bard and Gadgie in the middle. I always leave the front empty. Arm the Bard and Gadgie with swords and shields and they can command the middle, using instruments/gadgetes and then swords. By being in the middle, usually they do not get targeted as much because only monsters in the front of them will target them, the fighters will have more area to cover and will usually take more hits.
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AJones1618 (19 posts) Click to EMail AJones1618 Click to send private message to AJones1618 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-15-08, 08:45 PM (Pacific)
21. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Hi Steve - I like your questions. I know there have been other answers already, but I'd like to throw mine in now that I'm here on this great board. WizGold remains THE best $20 I ever spent. lol But now that you're moving to Wiz 8, I don't think you'll be disappointed given the technical advancements. I figure it as being only around one third the length of gaming of Wiz 7, but it has really nice touches to it.

1. My suggestion: If you go into the create a character menu and look at the drop down for professions, you'll find 15 listed in a particular order. Personally, I divide these into even thirds when I think about a party of characters. The bottom 5 are clearly your main spell casters. I think of the top 5 as being mainly warrior types. The middle 5 I consider "specialties". This isn't clear cut, but it's my summary guide for thinking of the lowest level characters. My guide for a first party is to have two professions from each third - two main warrior types, two main spellcasters and two from the specialties. That's just a suggestion. Monk is the only one in the middle third that does not have the lock & trap skill, so you should take at least one of the other ones who does get that.

2. I believe I checked the profession stats to figure this out myself. I am pretty sure Bard was the closest fit to Gadgeteer. For what it's worth, I personally believe that Bards slightly edge out Gadgeteers in usefulness since they don't have to put their instruments together. Gadgeteers have to find the second component before an item does them any good. I still like them a lot, though.

3. I thought I saw you mention you have two Bishops(?) Although they get all four spell realms in Wiz 8, they do not get the 25% bonus in those realms that the other 4 spell professions get. This means it will be considerably later in the game before they get the highest level spells that the other 4 basic spellcasters will get. Bishops are still great, but maybe you don't need two.

4. I think this is probably true since they can berserk with any weapon. Some other professions can compensate for this when using the Bloodlust sword (you find it fairly early in the game), but Fighters don't need to wait. (My best damage inflictor turned out to be my Felpurr Rogue through the second half of my game. This was a combination of her speed, backstab attack and a *LIGHT SWORD* we happened to find. It's not always available, though.) Fighters can do the best damage AND wear the best armor. I can't think of any other that gets that combination, let alone right from the beginning.

5. The search icon will compensate for not having a Ranger, but it will also get you "surprised" in battle annoyingly often. Ranger is probably a good choice for a first party.

6. Personally, I have been disappointed in Faeries for Wiz 8. I'd recommend skipping that race. I did find the equipment limitations to not be worth it.

Sorry about the length of this post, but I hope you have found something worth considering here. Have fun!

A. J.

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-16-08, 12:01 PM (Pacific)
22. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Wow! We have thread in flames here on this board... I must definitely explain why I recommend two Bishops: It is the easiest way to get all spells plus some overlap (if you don't like excess training like me). I've played with pure casters. They develop fast and then... it's over. I felt they were always lacking some spell I wanted to cast. The highest level spells aren't as important as in W7 (you cannot anymore wipe out hordes of monsters with them). If you start with an imported party your Bishops can get a very good start: 16 points in all magic schools and 13 in four realms and 4 x 9 points as they level up. I always develop all realms for both Bishops!

By the way, the most critical spell level is level 5 and Bishops reach that level well before you start encountering monsters against which you will seriously need those spells. (I guess you have to have some knowledge about where not to venture.)

After some more levels (and visits to shops in Arnika) one of my basic Bishops is both well developed Alchemist and Priest PLUS he has the most important Mage and Psionic level 1 and 2 spells since he has 16 points in all magic schools. The other is of course as versatile.

It is easy to start developing a third school of magic (but I don't consider developing all four to be fun anymore). There are many spells which I consider so important that both must have them. There is always something to cast, Identify, Knock Knock and all the Buff spells, which will increase your skill points so you don't need to worry about having to spread skill points in many places.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-03-09, 02:45 AM (Pacific)
23. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
1. Ok, so as I understand it, when you change classes in W8 you can no longer build skills from the previous, but you can still use them at the level you built them to? Except Scouting?

2. Something one person said made it sound like Bishops being transferred from W7 get 16 in all schools of magic, does that mean even if I only train them in the two they have in W7?

3. I know I already got some opinions on RPC's, but with how many people that have responded to this post I wanted to ask people about their favorites. Who do you all like and why? Who do you hate and why?

4. In W7 I almost never used spell books, because picking spells gain at levels granted additional skill points that books did not. Has this changed much? It seems a lot of people talk about using spell books.

5. With the pain of constantly removing curse, is seems the CoC might not be worth the trouble, is there any reason to still make my ninja a faerie?

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-03-09, 09:26 AM (Pacific)
24. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
1. I am not an expert here.

2. Yes. Remember oratory, too. It affects the spell points.

3. Vi and RFS, because they are good. Others aren't.

4. Many books can be bought in Arnika and later in the Swamp. Some can be found. I could write some kind of a spoiler about it if you like.

5. No... My Emerald isn't Faerie any more. A Hobbit is better. But especially in the mods I may have a Faerie Bishop, Gadgeteer or Rogue to take advantage of the special equipment.

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-03-09, 11:25 AM (Pacific)
25. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
>1. Ok, so as I understand it, when you change classes
>in W8 you can no longer build skills from the
>previous, but you can still use them at the level
>you built them to? Except Scouting?

Essentially correct. Unless the skill is also open to the new class, you can still use it (except for scouting) but you cannot improve it.

>2. Something one person said made it sound like Bishops being
>transferred from W7 get 16 in all schools of magic, does that mean even if I only train them in the two they have in W7?

No. Bishops, and any other "pure" caster class (Pri, Alc, Psi, Mag) may transfer with a MAXIMUM of 16 in each of these schools. The amount they actually transfer with is approximately 4/25, rounded down if I remember correctly. (This is twice the rate at which hybrids import with spell schools; non-spell users import with 1-3 points, which if you think about it, does not matter at all.) If your bishop (or other caster) had no alchemy training in CODS, s/he/it doesn't magically gain some upon importing. Upon the first level up, however, any caster will get at least base 5 in any school open to that class.

>4. In W7 I almost never used spell books, because picking
>spells gain at levels granted additional skill points that books did not. Has this changed much? It seems a lot
>of people talk about using spell books.

It has changed. In W8, mana is computed based, in part, on the number of spells known, no matter how they were learned. Thus, whether you learn a spell from a book or upon level up, your mana will be the same.

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-03-09, 12:45 PM (Pacific)
26. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
>
>
>>2. Something one person said made it sound like Bishops being
>>transferred from W7 get 16 in all schools of magic, does that mean even if I only train them in the two they have in W7?
>
>No. Bishops, and any other
>"pure" caster class (Pri, Alc,
>Psi, Mag) may transfer with
>a MAXIMUM of 16 in
>each of these schools.
>The amount they actually transfer
>with is approximately 4/25, rounded
>down if I remember correctly.
> (This is twice the
>rate at which hybrids import
>with spell schools; non-spell users
>import with 1-3 points, which
>if you think about it,
>does not matter at all.)
> If your bishop (or
>other caster) had no alchemy
>training in CODS, s/he/it doesn't
>magically gain some upon importing.
> Upon the first level
>up, however, any caster will
>get at least base 5
>in any school open to
>that class.

But Bishops will get 16 points in all four magic schools, in Alchemy and Psionics, too, if they had maxed their skills on Theology and Thaumaturgy in W 7.


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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-04-09, 03:11 AM (Pacific)
27. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
So a I don't have to have any points in psionics or alchemy, so long as I have theology and thaumaturgy maxed? You're 100%?
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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-04-09, 04:56 AM (Pacific)
28. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Yes. I did this several times as I searched for the ultimate party. Sometimes with an editor... gave some million exp to a beginner party. Then I forgot Oratory and ended up with two Bishops having 16 in all schools but only one spellpoint in the four realms they begin with... Max Oratory, too!
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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-05-09, 04:54 PM (Pacific)
29. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Ok, so here's what I'm thinking:

Dwarf Fighter
Felpur Ninja
Elf Bishop
Mook Ranger
Human Bard
Mook Gadgeteer

I am rebelling against the hobbits, I hate them! With their "I'm so great, I can do everything" attitudes, I don't need them! I think I'll start a lot of them off as ninjas in W7, to get the crits and ninjitsu, then change them early on to what they are supposed to be. That way when I import them, they'll have some points in those that I can activate when they have enough attribute points to spend a level as ninjas. Spend that single level maxing their stealth, get a few more points in crit, then change them back. What do you guys think?

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 00:35 AM (Pacific)
30. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
In W7 you should change towards elite professions. Otherwise you lose much attibute points. Of course you could change to final profession just before you import. You must stealthtrain every character. Did you know that in W8 stealth means monsters can't see and attack the non-stealth characters instead?

The party looks good. Check what a Bard imports. That will save your ass many times.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 09:04 AM (Pacific)
31. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Wait, when I import, all my characters will start at level one, but with XP to get to level 5, right? Ok, so then all the extra points you normally get at creation say a Dracon Fighter who gets 60 to put where ever he wants, we don't get those when we import?

What a bard imports skill wise? Or instrument wise?

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 09:17 AM (Pacific)
32. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
I did a detailed study of import rules, which has been preserved on the Flamestryke site: http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html
Look for "import index" on the left-hand side. This will answer most, if not all, of your questions.

(R.I.P. Lana )

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 11:41 AM (Pacific)
33. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Your characters don't get the extra attribute points to distribute as you like, but they will get 9-10 points more than created characters plus they get 24 points as they level up. The most important Bard instrument will be Siren's Wail! Flamestryke's site has it all.
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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 12:24 PM (Pacific)
34. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Ok, so when importing, having a race/class blend that ends in all the spare points being taken, but without going into the negative is preferable? Because while they don't give you the spare points, they will give you the negative?
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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 07:58 PM (Pacific)
35. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
I'm not sure what you mean. To clarify, however, when you import, you don't get to distribute ANY of the attribute points; the game does it for you (in the manner detailed on Flamestryke's site).

If you don't like that distribution pattern, you basically have two options:

1. DROP all of your imported characters and create new ones; you'll lose all those experience and skill points, but you'll have control over the attribute distribution AND you'll have all of that nice gear you imported.

2. Use a hex-editor to redistribute the points. ;)

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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-06-09, 10:08 PM (Pacific)
36. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
I try to guess what you mean. You should choose races that have good starting stats in the attributes you think you need. I had to abandon many race-profession combinations that were efficient in W7 while doing the profession changes, like a Dwarf ending as a Samurai. If I remember correctly, he came to W8 with best points in STR and VIT. As I wanted DEX and SPD I had to begin with a Felpurr (which wasn't the perfect canditate for changing to Samurai). Likewise a Faerie Bishop would be faster to begin with than an Elf, although an Elf is a good choice.

The party you mentioned should be OK, Mook Ranger, for example, has high DEX and SEN which is just what s/he needs to develop first.

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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-10-09, 09:34 PM (Pacific)
37. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Faerie would be faster, but what about the limitations on equipment?
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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-10-09, 10:12 PM (Pacific)
38. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
Equipment limitations can become frustrating in the unmodded game. My Bishops have had a Monstrance as a basic weapon. But weapons aren't so important for them. And iniative in combat can be built on Senses, too, if you choose an Elf. You could take an Elf now and leave the Faerie for mods.
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GoatBoySteve (14 posts) Click to EMail GoatBoySteve Click to send private message to GoatBoySteve Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-10-09, 10:32 PM (Pacific)
39. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
For the future, could you maybe provide me with a list of mods and the site I can get them from?
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emeraldFN (29 posts) Click to EMail emeraldFN Click to send private message to emeraldFN Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Feb-10-09, 10:40 PM (Pacific)
40. "RE: Various Questions (please help)"
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-09 AT 11:24 PM (Pacific)

Almost everything should be here:

http://www.flamestryke.com/wizardry8/flamestrykes_w8.html

And the latest here:

http://vnboards.ign.com/wizardry_8_spoiler_board/b21210/108500241/p1/?15

Edit: You could download everything now, although fans are fiercely keeping everything up.

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