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"Training"

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Conferences Wizardry(r) 8 Conferences Wiz 8 - Destination Dominus (Protected)
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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-30-03, 04:58 PM (Pacific)
"Training"
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-03 AT 05:00 PM (Pacific)

Part of my career is to make a short question into a long post. With that as prelude:

Okay, all of you W8 experts, I've been spending far too much time in Bane and not nearly enough on Dominus. In fact, despite having the game almost from day one, I still haven't ascended. In fact, I'm embarrassed to reveal how little I've seen of the planet - although I at least picked up the souvenir t-shirt from He'Li's Bar & Get Grilled.

I'm getting back into it, now, and it's been a wonderful visit. But while I've read a lot about "training" (you know what I mean: things like "defending" for a few hours of continuous combat against a platinum slime - still have to meet one of those - to develop stealth skill, or casting multiple knock spells on a certain locked door to develop earth magic, etc.) but I've not successfully executed it, myself. In my experience, for example, each combat encounter will only raise a skill one point. It may raise SEVERAL skills by one point: music, ranged combat, close combat, sword, dual weapons, on and on, but each skill only gets a one-point increase. Am I the only one this is happening to? What are your training experiences? Are you able to get multiple point increases in a single encounter, be that a single combat, or a single alchemical endeavor (i.e., going into the character screen and individually mixing multiple potions to train alchemy), or a single lock-picking, etc.

By the way: I'm running the latest patch; the one where pickpocketing has been de-cheesed.

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Avatar (86 posts) Click to EMail Avatar Click to send private message to Avatar Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-31-03, 07:43 AM (Pacific)
1. "RE: Training"
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-03 AT 07:44 AM (Pacific)

Don't know about you Kemo-sabe but in my experience the answer is...<drum roll please>... YES. The key to the gain is NOT the level of the spell but how many times you use the skill or talent. Some skills you can use only a limited amount of times on an object or NPC (Locks and Traps Pickpocket) since its only one object only one poimt. Others you can multiply use until you run out of juice (Knock-Knock Heal Wounds Stealth) these are the ones that can gain you multiple points in a single sitting. Remember number of times is the key so therefore 6 level 1 Heal Wounds are better for skill increase than 1 level 6 Heal Wounds.

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-31-03, 10:15 AM (Pacific)
4. "Not sure I fully understand you"
Your experience is certainly encouraging, although I've yet to see a multi-point gain, myself, from a single encounter. I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making between Locks & Traps and Pickpocketing, on the one hand, versus multiple Knock-Knock or Heal spells and Stealth training, on the other hand.

Since the final patch, Pickpocketing, as I understand it, is in a class by itself. Similar to the way chest contents are set when a party first enters a particular map, so you cannot repeatedly re-open the same chest to try to generate that choice item (memories of the Gorrors' Chests), Pickpocketing results are also saved, so if you re-load to try again, you will still get exactly the same results. I don't know if that includes level increases. Someone will have to check that, sometime. (It should be pretty easy: just practice pickpocketing various NPCs until an encounter generates a skill increase. Then, reload that particular encounter and replay it to see if it leads to the same skill increase. One repetition might be luck, but if the skill increase occurs on every single re-load, it seems that this result is "set" like the other pickpocketing results.)

As for Locks & Traps, I recall others mentioning that they receive multiple increases by "examining" the same trap, or "picking" tumblers in the same lock, over and over. That, along with the Stealth, et al., increases, is something I've not been able to duplicate. What I'm wondering about is the mechanics of those - like you - who affirm it can be done. The one instance in which I HAVE seen multiple increases was during some early practice with the starting crabs on the monestary beach. But there, I got multiple increases because the combat would repeatedly stop when all the crabs were asleep and my party members were either defending or sleeping (the Bard) themselves, and then combat would immediately re-start as the crabs woke up. In between the stops and re-starts, my bard and ninja (the two characters training - Music and Stealth) would realize a one-point increase.

As for whether lots of practice (i.e., multiple attempts with low-level spells) versus difficult practice (i.e., fewer attempts with high-level spells) is more effective, I appreciate your opinion, but I've read a few contrary points of view. Obviously, I am coming at the question from a position of ignorance, so I'm not going to disparage the position of anyone with more experience. What I wonder, however, is what documentation or testing anyone has generated.

(I'd do it myself, really, but as Llevram rightly points out, I need to be playing the game . . . heh, heh, heh.)

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Llevram (5415 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-31-03, 08:38 AM (Pacific)
2. "No wonder you haven't finished"
Stop training and just play the darned game

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-31-03, 09:46 AM (Pacific)
3. "Blame Bane"
Well, to be accurate, you should blame my obsessive-compulsive desire to bring a small party (2 or 4 characters) through Bane without any deaths. Note: that doesn't mean I re-load whenever someone dies; it means I RE-START when there's a death. Most deaths (and hence re-starts) occur before the first level up, so I've spent an awful lot of time in the entry hall of the Bane King's Castle. The furthest I've reached was wandering around on the River Styx when my 2-character party was jumped by four groups of dragon flies: imagine what would happen to you if about 36 dracons breathed on your party in a single round. Back to the entry hall . . . .

Assuming that my current 4-character Bane party survives, I'll write their story and post it in the Bane forum as sort of a prequel to the Dominus Diaries. I have been alternating time between Bane and W8 in part to be better prepared when my intrepid band reaches Dominus. I really HAVEN'T spent much time training in W8, because I haven't found it very productive. (Hence, my post.) The gameplay, however, has been wonderful.

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Avatar (86 posts) Click to EMail Avatar Click to send private message to Avatar Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Dec-31-03, 06:46 PM (Pacific)
5. "RE: Training"
In the vault in Arnika casting 1st level Knock-Knock at the door repeatedly I have on occasion gone up 2 and one time 3 earth magic levels when I had exhausted all the magic I had and had to rest to recharge. Did the same with Alchemy when I merged 250 potions in one shot. So it is possible just very difficult
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