"Why would you have a ninja in your party?"

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Marius (Guest) (1 posts) Nov-18-02, 01:16 AM (Pacific) "Why would you have a ninja in your party?" Ok - Ninjas are cool. Imagine this - you are in combat with, say, 9 Helligators, and your ninja, unseen to this point, drops out of a tree and hits the gator in the eye with a Shuriken - INSTANT KILL!! But seriously, why would you want one, from a power gamer perspective? Am I missing something? Lets take a look at the Ninja's capabilities: 1) Thrown Criticals 2) Alchemical Spells 3) Locks and Traps 4) Stealth For 1) and 2), I don't see why a Ranger isn't a far superior version of the same thing - not only do your ranged criticals have longer range, but you get them based on your ranged combat stat - one less skill to pump points into. As for 3), as long as you have a Bard, Rogue, or Gadgeteer in your party you have someone else to do this who has fewer skills they have to worry about. Even if you don't, Knock-Knock on a powerful mage is usually plenty. And you only need 4) because you can't wear any armor! So what is so nice about Ninjas that I am missing?   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Table of Contents

3 words, Dragon2k, 01:39 AM, Nov-18-02, (1) 4 words (or probably just 2), Llevram, 08:37 AM, Nov-18-02, (2) RE: 4 words (or probably just 2), Marius (Guest), 08:54 AM, Nov-18-02, (3) RE: 4 words (or probably just 2), Spence (Guest), 06:30 AM, Nov-19-02, (4) How is the Monk better?, Llevram, 08:03 AM, Nov-19-02, (5) RE: How is the Monk better?, Spence (Guest), 09:07 AM, Nov-19-02, (6) RE: How is the Monk better?, Guest, 06:22 AM, Feb-15-03, (7) RE: 4 words (or probably just 2), Spyder Dea, 04:56 PM, Dec-23-03, (10) RE: Why would you have a ninja in your party?, Lamoni, 08:20 AM, Feb-18-03, (8) RE: Why would you have a ninja in your party?, Guy Joe (Guest), 10:52 AM, Dec-23-03, (9)

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Dragon2k (806 posts) Nov-18-02, 01:39 AM (Pacific) 1. "3 words" Cane of Corpus Faerie Ninja only, though you are right, as a Ranger has better long distance skills than the ninja, and a bard or rogue can handle the locks and traps (and would have stealth, too) non-faerie ninjas are not strong enough for most of the game. main reason is Critical Strike, which although it only affects close combat weapons, helps a bit. not enough to rely on it in times of crisis, but good enough that it is a relief when one happens. also, it is a Role Playing Game, thus having the jack of all trades guy and building him up, is something a lot of people like. a Faerie Ninja, as it is Fantasy. high speed, Dexterity, high natural AC, CoC, and the rod of Sprites later. rely on spells later, for long attacks. but hey, Ninjas are cheap to equip. save money for the fighters.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Llevram (5415 posts) Nov-18-02, 08:37 AM (Pacific) 2. "4 words (or probably just 2)" Because you want to. (or) Critical Strike. I think a lot of us choose the characters we have because they are the kind we want ... many of my parties have been ninja-less and so far none have had the fairy type. if you have built your party using 5 characters to cover everything but alchemy and want another fighter type, why not a ninja? One real reason is the 25% bonus to Critical Strike ... still think a ranger has a better chance at instant kill? Not in melee, especially if you have decent weapons and have paid attention to speed and dexterity ... you have many more chances at a critical when you are hitting (swinging, bashing, thrusting, etc.) 8+ times a round, then firing off a few arrows. Tools for Wizardry(r) 7   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Marius (Guest) (1 posts) Nov-18-02, 08:54 AM (Pacific) 3. "RE: 4 words (or probably just 2)" Ah. That is exactly what I missed - the ability to critical strike in melee. Thanks. I fully plan to have a ninja in my next party, just that in thinking about it, I couldn't think of a way to make that character better than the ranger I have now. Each class has its pluses and minuses, of course, but stacked up next to each other, I have found that Wiz 8 does an excellent job of balancing them, something which other games with far fewer classes fail to do. That's why I was surprised when I looked at Rangers and Ninjas - and concluded there was something I was missing. Any power gamers (something I am not, but they are a great source of knowledge ..) out there want to report on anything else kickass about ninjas I missed?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Spence (Guest) (0 posts) Nov-19-02, 06:30 AM (Pacific) 4. "RE: 4 words (or probably just 2)" One more reason. Because the Ninja uses the Alchemy school for magic, he/she can't be silenced. Well, they get silenced but can still cast their spells. The Ranger has this also though. The biggest point, already made in a previous post is that the Ninja is the ONLY profession with BOTH ranged criticals(thrown weapons only, sling type weapons don't count) AND Melee Criticals. When it comes to Hand-to-Hand Melee Criticals, the Monk is superior to the Ninja. However, the Ninja can wield more melee type weapons than the Monk. Spence   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Llevram (5415 posts) Nov-19-02, 08:03 AM (Pacific) 5. "How is the Monk better?" The Ninja gets a 25% bonus in Critical Strike (right?), plus can wield more weapons that add their own percent of instant kill ... versus the Monk's hand and feet? I guess if you are talking bare-handed (hand -to-hand), the Monk may level out with his bonus in Martial Arts. Tools for Wizardry(r) 7   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Spence (Guest) (0 posts) Nov-19-02, 09:07 AM (Pacific) 6. "RE: How is the Monk better?" Right. The reason the Monk is superior in Hand-to-Hand Melee Criticals is because he/she is the Martial Arts expert. Obviously, the Martial Arts skill improves bare-handed performance. Without this skill, a Fighter would be just as effective with bare-hands as the Ninja and Monk. The 25% ,always applied, bonus means that point for point in Martial Arts, the Monk will always be better. Again, this is only when fighting bare-handed. The Ninja has more choices in weapons, both melee and thrown, than the Monk. A Z-Bo for the Monk makes up for some of this but a Faerie Ninja with a CoC blows it away. Then again, a Monk with the Z-Bo is more versatile than a Faerie Ninja equiped with the CoC. With a CoC equiped, the Faerie Ninja has only 2 attack options. Short range melee and magic. You can "remove curse" during combat but who wants to waste turns just to equip another weapon? The Z-Bo is not cursed so all attack options are open to the Monk IMO though, if both are taken to their ultimate peak, the Ninja is the better of the 2. Similar skills but the Ninja has more weapons to choose from and is a magic caster that can't be silenced. Spence   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guest (110 posts) Feb-15-03, 06:22 AM (Pacific) 7. "RE: How is the Monk better?" Also Auto penetrate allows attacks to penetrate armor so you can crit hit as long as you can hit them unlike the ranger that can do no damage.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Spyder Dea (7 posts) Dec-23-03, 04:56 PM (Pacific) 10. "RE: 4 words (or probably just 2)" That's why I'm currently running a party with the F-nij, a monk and a ranger. I have a bard, lord and bishop to round them out. Ought to be a tough party with good criticals and plenty of magic late in the game.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lamoni (16 posts) Feb-18-03, 08:20 AM (Pacific) 8. "RE: Why would you have a ninja in your party?" I would agree that the Ninja is often the worst character to choose in a group because it doesn't excel in fighting or magic. The fighter is much better at close combat, the ranger is better at ranged criticals, the monk is better at martial arts, and the ranger is just as good at alchemy. But, while a ranger, or a monk, or a fighter will have all their basic skills maxed out at the higher levels, the ninja will still have areas to improve. So, like Spence kind of said, if all are taken to their ultimate peak, the Ninja is the best. What you have to ask yourself is, how much time do you spend playing at levels 1-28 and how much time do you spend playing at levels 29+? I think the biggest reason to use a ninja in a party though is that, "it is a Role Playing Game, thus having the jack of all trades guy and building him up, is something a lot of people like."-Dragon2k And having a faerie ninja with a CoC is just fun. That is what the game is all about... having fun. Even if a well equipped fighter can do close to the same damage while still being effective with a bow. It isn't always just about the kills, it is also about how you do it. I personally think that fighters are about the most boring class. I use one in each of my parties, but I don't get excited about developing them like I do with my other characters.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guy Joe (Guest) (1 posts) Dec-23-03, 10:52 AM (Pacific) 9. "RE: Why would you have a ninja in your party?" Don't forget that you can take a Ninja to 100 skill in Critical Strike and Stealth, then Dual Class him into a Ranger to get the best of ALL worlds, including stackable Alchemy Magic. Turning a Ranger into a Ninja doesn't buy you anything at all compared to the Ninja -> Ranger swap. You don't even have to invest in Dual Weapon this way, if you don't want too. Just make sure you're investing your stat points towards being a ranger, later on.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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