"A little inauguration present"

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nichg (40 posts) Feb-13-05, 12:30 PM (Pacific) "A little inauguration present" With the reorganization of the boards, the timing seems about right. I've been writing a wiz-alike game on-and-off for awhile, so I figured I'd post some screenshots... http://12.221.64.38:3000/eldritch/screenshots.htm That site is really just my home computer, so the address will probably expire at some point. Of course, I've bitten off a lot with this so I can't make any guarantees about ever finishing what I have planned for it, but it is in a playable state The development is being done under linux (using the framebuffer), but it can also use SDL for X11 or Allegro under DOS. NichG   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Table of Contents

Very cool, Llevram, 12:45 PM, Feb-13-05, (1) RE: Very cool, nichg, 01:14 PM, Feb-13-05, (2) RE: Very cool, ShadowCrust, 11:45 AM, Apr-06-05, (3) RE: Very cool, nichg, 12:08 PM, Apr-06-05, (4) Free sites, Llevram, 08:02 PM, Apr-06-05, (5) RE: Free sites, nichg, 09:01 PM, Apr-06-05, (6) RE: Free sites, ShadowCrust, 11:57 AM, Apr-07-05, (7) make it run, ShadowCrust, 02:44 PM, Apr-07-05, (8) RE: make it run, nichg, 03:40 PM, Apr-07-05, (9) run Jane run, ShadowCrust, 12:37 PM, Apr-11-05, (10) RE: run Jane run, nichg, 02:48 PM, Apr-11-05, (11) obstacles, ShadowCrust, 02:36 PM, Apr-14-05, (13) RE: obstacles, ShadowCrust, 02:47 PM, Apr-14-05, (14) RE: run Jane run, nichg, 04:42 PM, Apr-12-05, (12) Wizardry 7.5, ShadowCrust, 03:36 PM, Apr-14-05, (15) RE: Wizardry 7.5, nichg, 05:14 PM, Apr-14-05, (16) RE: Wizardry 7.5, ShadowCrust, 10:39 PM, Apr-14-05, (17) RE: Wizardry 7.5, nichg, 10:55 PM, Apr-14-05, (18) RE: Wizardry 7.5, ShadowCrust, 11:09 PM, Apr-14-05, (19) RE: Wizardry 7.5, nichg, 11:16 PM, Apr-14-05, (20) into the wonderful, ShadowCrust, 11:57 PM, Apr-14-05, (21) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg, 09:28 PM, Jul-21-05, (22) RE: A little inauguration present, Skeptic (Guest), 06:12 AM, Jul-08-06, (23) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 02:27 AM, Jul-17-06, (24) RE: A little inauguration present, ShadowCrust, 08:10 AM, Jul-21-06, (25) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 02:16 PM, Jul-21-06, (26) RE: A little inauguration present, ShadowCrust, 02:57 AM, Jul-23-06, (27) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 06:12 AM, Jul-23-06, (28) RE: A little inauguration present, ShadowCrust, 08:07 AM, Jul-23-06, (29) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 10:21 AM, Jul-23-06, (30) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 11:11 PM, Jul-24-06, (31) RE: A little inauguration present, ShadowCrust, 02:00 AM, Jul-26-06, (32) RE: A little inauguration present, nichg (Guest), 07:41 AM, Jul-26-06, (33)

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Llevram (5022 posts) Feb-13-05, 12:45 PM (Pacific) 1. "Very cool" I've been getting the itch to start such a project as well ... what programming language or SDKs are you using for this? What other tools (like for graphics) are you using? Tools for Wizardry(r) 7   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Feb-13-05, 01:14 PM (Pacific) 2. "RE: Very cool" Really bare-bones. I'm just using C with a framebuffer lib I wrote (and SDL for the X11 users and allegro for the DOS users ... portability is a pain sometimes ). I'm using mikmod for sound and music but its not that great so I might be switching to something else if it keeps giving me problems. For images I'm using libpng to load em (not going to write my own PNG decompressor...). Otherwise, all the graphics are basically done in GIMP with a mouse I wrote a map editor to make the maps, which has been getting a little heavy on the keyboard shortcuts. Not really much of a GUI to speak of. All the items/monsters/spells/etc are in text datafiles, though an item editor would be a nice thing to write one of these days since the number of items is growing pretty quickly. The event code is a mix of C and a module-based programming language I wrote (i.e. not really a language but a chain of functions, and branches done by having a function say to either skip the following code or not). If the event index for a map is less than 100, it uses the eventcode stored in the map file. Otherwise, it looks it up in a giant case statement that gets compiled into the game (so that way, I can do most things with mapcode, but for the strange stuff I get an urge to do that my mapcode can't handle, I can just use C). For the faux-3d I use a neat trick (or at least I think its neat). I used povray to render a series of 3d scenes of walls, but with the textures being an rgb gradient. So now the rgb values in those scenes correspond to pixel coordinates in something like a texture map. So all I have to do is scan through the scene, look up the coordinates of the pixel that should be displayed there, and put it there. It's not quite as fast as if I prerendered all of the perspectives of the walls and just blitted them in the correct order, but the code is a lot cleaner so its easier to add, for instance, new object layers. In theory I could render a scene where the floor tiles are reflective, or which had refractive spheres hanging around or whatever, and use that just as easily, except of course its not all that common an occurance Curved walls or whatever wouldn't be hard to do either, I suppose, but it hasn't really been high on my list of things to add. NichG   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-06-05, 11:45 AM (Pacific) 3. "RE: Very cool" Any updates available for the general public? I guess I missed the window of opportunity/availability here...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-06-05, 12:08 PM (Pacific) 4. "RE: Very cool" Sorry, I haven't really distributed this program at all, mostly because I don't have a place to put it on the web (those shots are hosted from my home computer which couldn't bear the strain of serving up a file as large as Eldritch is). Actually, it'd be great if a lot of interest developed about this because, lets face it, I've created a giant empty wilderness thats now going to be a LOT of work to fill to the extent that it doesn't feel quite so empty (though I think there is a decent amount of stuff in the starting area of the world). So of course ideas are welcome So anyhow, if you want it I'll email you the url for the current version. Or even better, if you can suggest a place for me to host the files   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Llevram (5022 posts) Apr-06-05, 08:02 PM (Pacific) 5. "Free sites" Doesn't yahoo or anyone offer free sites anymore? Tools for Wizardry(r) 7   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-06-05, 09:01 PM (Pacific) 6. "RE: Free sites" LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-05 AT 11:38 AM (Pacific) Um, possibly, but the file is fairly big (probably about 20 megs by now). I'm not sure if yahoo offers 20 megs free webspace. I remember some places that used to offer 100 megs, but they've shut down or are unreliable. I should probably look at sourceforge since most open projects I see nowadays have a sourceforge site. New news: I got a page on sourceforge for Eldritch, so you can now download it and try it out if you want. Its a source distribution so you'll need to compile it yourself. That's likely easiest under linux, but it should be doable under DOS with djgpp. Here's the page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/eldritch/   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-07-05, 11:57 AM (Pacific) 7. "RE: Free sites" Nice, downloading now...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-07-05, 02:44 PM (Pacific) 8. "make it run" Hmmm, that wasn't overly successful... compiling went ok, but starting eldritch from the eldritch directory does nothing, no error message, just nothing. Compiled again with make -f Makefile.SDL, again no compiling errors, again starting eldritch, again no response whatsoever. Am a bit clueless here what went wrong, the x server is set to 24 bit as required, the libraries are present as well. Running Debian Sid.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-07-05, 03:40 PM (Pacific) 9. "RE: make it run" Well, actually its interesting that it compiled without error for you since when I just tested it I found that in fact Makefile.SDL has an error in it, and it should complain about not finding the various SDL symbols. Try with the following makefile: http://12.221.64.38:3000/eldritch/Makefile.SDL   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-11-05, 12:37 PM (Pacific) 10. "run Jane run" Tried to connect three times on three days, but maybe I have to climb over seven hills and swim through seven rivers and cross seven valleys to reach the hidden file... unless you've also uploaded it to Sourceforge, going to look now.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-11-05, 02:48 PM (Pacific) 11. "RE: run Jane run" You can't access the file? Can you access the page with screenshots? The tar on sourceforge now has the corrected Makefile, just so you know, but its a bit silly to redownload the entire 17 meg file just for that. Here's the text: #DISPLAYDEFINES = -DFB -DSCRNSHOT -DLINUX -DCURS -DMIKMOD #DISPLAYDEFINES = -DX11 -DSCRNSHOT -DLINUX #DISPLAYDEFINES = -DSVGA -DSCRNSHOT -DMIKMOD DISPLAYDEFINES = -DSDL -DSCRNSHOT -DLINUX -DMIKMOD MIKMODLIB = `libmikmod-config --libs` MIKMODFLAGS = `libmikmod-config --cflags` #MIKMODFLAGS = #MIKMODLIB = LIBS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib/ -lX11 -lm -lncurses -lSDL -lpthread -lpng $(MIKMODLIB) #LIBS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib/ -lX11 -lm -lncurses -lpng $(MIKMODLIB) #LIBS = -lm -lncurses -lpng $(MIKMODLIB) #LIBS = -lvga -lm -lncurses -lpng $(MIKMODLIB) CFLAGS = -pg -g -O6 -finline-functions -Wno-main $(MIKMODFLAGS) CC = cc $(DISPLAYDEFINES) $(CFLAGS) ELDRITCHFLAGS = -o eldritch $(LIBS) MAPEDITFLAGS = -o mapedit $(LIBS) -O6 #CMAPEDITFLAGS = -o cmapedit $(LIBS) -O6 EXTRAOBJ = include Makefile.core clean: ; rm *.o ; rm eldritch ; rm mapedit   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 02:36 PM (Pacific) 13. "obstacles" New Makefile.SDL gives me the following error when compiling: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lSDL collect2: ld returned 1 exit status   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 02:47 PM (Pacific) 14. "RE: obstacles" Never mind, installation of libsdl1.2-dev did the trick. Now switching to 24 bit and reporting back.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-12-05, 04:42 PM (Pacific) 12. "RE: run Jane run" Actually, I have another question. How long are you waiting for Eldritch to load while its black-screen? It does take a fair amount of time (I should have a splash screen, I know) because it scans through all the map files on load. It might take 10-30 seconds on a slower machine.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 03:36 PM (Pacific) 15. "Wizardry 7.5" Hehe, nice! Loading time is taking about half a second or so on an AMD 64 3000+. Generated a character and used the same character for all six party slots, which is kinda weird. Took off to the dungeon, transported to the green Wizardry 7-esque area, heard suddenly music for the first time (sound worked all along) and saved the wagon driver. Now stumbling a bit around in search for a city. Here some comments and first impressions: Playing area seems a tad small on a 1280x1024 display. Mirroring the character images on the right side is nice, but the hp, stamina and magic bars are also inverted. When fighting and selecting monsters to attack, you can also choose a grey rectangle which serves no obvious purpose. I would like it if pressing and holding enter would go through all default fighting options for each character, just like in Wizardry 6. When saving, it might come in handy to have the last savegame name displayed. Framerate display refresh is very fast, I guess I have about 40 fps. Under that fps number, there's a small brown rectangle which is eiher a glitch or hiding its purpose well. But overall quite cool, thanks for the game! Now make it multiplayer!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-14-05, 05:14 PM (Pacific) 16. "RE: Wizardry 7.5" Yes, well, the playing area would be small on a display that size. I can't really recommend SDL fullscreen as it is always a dangerous proposition (the only thing I've found that can completely lock up linux for me) but you might want to try it with that (just run it from the console). That way it'll be at 640x480 which is the size its meant to be. You'd actually get a bit more than 40fps if you used framebuffer mode (I get 40 on my laptop, which is a Pentium 2400) Inversion of the HP,Stam,Magic bars was actually intentional. It looked weird to me the other way around In battle, if you press and hold enter you WILL go through the default fighting options for each character, which is attack if able, otherwise parry. It won't repeat previous actions though (which I could probably do, but might have dangerous consequences with item use, spell use, etc). ( Actually, I think the problem here is just that SDL isn't passing a held key as repeated presses of the key, so if you were using the framebuffer version this'd work without problems... I'll see if I can figure out how to enable repeat keystrokes ) Also, something thats useful is if you press spacebar in the combat menus it will jump to the 'proceed, cancel, quit' dialog. The small brown rectangle is your automap If you get a map kit, it will become a 5x5 grid. Or if you create a character with the 'Orientation' intrinsic (this is additive with the mapkit). Last savegame name is a good idea, I'll do that. As far as finding a city, try going south (if you can locate south ) Either way, if you follow the path you'll end up at a city, though the one to the south is far more useful to you right now. In the north, there's a vast (and vastly empty) wilderness filled with the incomplete shells of cities that are pending. And as for multiplayer, WHY?!?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 10:39 PM (Pacific) 17. "RE: Wizardry 7.5" Ooh, the map it is... must have a look into keyboard commands, the map of Kelore just displays a nice image of the whole world when activated. As for multiplayer, it's much fun blaming the bad strategy and loss of battles and extremities to your co-player(s). One player could control the first three characters, the other the other three in combat. Or even have multiple parties, though I think that might be a bit more difficult to realise. Found a city (Gwyrath, no idea about the direction, though), now roaming the streets in search for a bar (and drinks).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-14-05, 10:55 PM (Pacific) 18. "RE: Wizardry 7.5" You'll have problems with Gwyrath at this point in the game. See, your party looks a bit strange, and the guards are nervous about you So you can find a bar, but it'll be deserted (haven't done the bars yet, next version I think since I have something really neat planned for them), but you can't get into the city proper without going homicidal on the guards (which unless you levelled up a lot is suicidal). On the other hand, down in Llewralle they're used to strange things, so they won't bother you quite so much, and there's someone who can help you stop scaring the natives... Map of Kelore is not the mapping kit btw, its just a world map thrown in there to help you find cities. As for multiplayer, well, um... You could get a few buddies to stand by the computer and tell you what to type In theory I suppose you could do something to mirror the display across an internet connection with the Xserver stuff, but it'd have to be a REALLY good connection (40fps at 480x480x24bpp, you do the math...)   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 11:09 PM (Pacific) 19. "RE: Wizardry 7.5" Hehe, so I've stumbled over the wrong city? Guess I'll try the other North then... Maybe it would be more feasible and connection-friendly to just transmit the position, facing direction, dialogue, combat options and the like... and of course the player chit-chat.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Apr-14-05, 11:16 PM (Pacific) 20. "RE: Wizardry 7.5" A hint: orientation is EXTREMELY useful The alternative is to learn the direction spell somewhere and cast it, or to get a map kit (which you can buy in Llewralle, but if you can't _find_ Llewralle then you're out of luck...). A little red arrow that shows you which way you're facing... You could also use the rising and setting of the sun I suppose... I hope I made that go in the right direction. I was just sort of joking about sharing the X connection, I have no real intention to code any of that into Eldritch. I meant it as sort of a hack to do so someone could watch you play remotely, using only tools available outside of the program   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Apr-14-05, 11:57 PM (Pacific) 21. "into the wonderful" Just found the Gorgon's Beard Tavern and Inn, but they are out of drinks unfortunately... or out of anything, actually. Southwards, sunwards...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (40 posts) Jul-21-05, 09:28 PM (Pacific) 22. "RE: A little inauguration present" I just put up a new version of Eldritch on sourceforge ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/eldritch/ ). There's stuff to do in some of the taverns now, and NPCs and shops added to the city north of Gwyrath. There's also an extra quest in Llewralle (probably needs to be tested a bit). And some other things here and there. NichG   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Skeptic (Guest) (24 posts) Jul-08-06, 06:12 AM (Pacific) 23. "RE: A little inauguration present" Woah! Was just looking through this thread last week and thinking it was a shame that this promising game(like so many similar projects) was abandoned(saw that the last post was like April of '05) and then you go and update! Any ETA on when you will release a binary(I hate messing with compiling stuff...especially in djgpp)? Already looks ten times better than that piece of crap "Grimoire" from that moron with the double digit I.Q.!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-17-06, 02:27 AM (Pacific) 24. "RE: A little inauguration present" Well, I recently (like, a few weeks ago) attempted making a windows binary but it had its share of problems. I know compiling under dos/windows is a pain, so I sort of have to just say 'get linux' I haven't really been working on this much of late. Though I have to say, I'm getting a little bit back into the feel of it (though I don't know if I'll have time). I've got to organize my thoughts on it so I can figure out what to add next, though I suppose I could add lots of little stuff (like the music puzzle and the scrying thing thats in this version, or is that as of yet unreleased... well, whichever ). Anyhow, I certainly suggest playing with the map editor and stuff. I've tried to include everything I used to develop with the source so if someone else is interested in adding on or using this as an engine it shouldn't be too difficult to do. To be honest, I really just haven't seen much interest in the program. Not sure if its because of the whole 'aw, I have to compile it?!' thing or what. Maintaining binaries for multiple OSs is really something I don't want to mess with however. It's just too much of a pain. At least with the DOS port that code doesn't change so I did it once and then could move on.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Jul-21-06, 08:10 AM (Pacific) 25. "RE: A little inauguration present" Yeah, I think compiling is too much to ask for in a 1-click-shopping and World of Warcraft-addicted society. You're only targetting a very limited audience. However, I think it's super, and if you could be arsed to offer a .deb file, downloading and playing might considerably increase. I'm sure there's a bunch of people doing an apt-cache search wizardry who would be delighted to find a nice game there.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-21-06, 02:16 PM (Pacific) 26. "RE: A little inauguration present" Eldritch doesn't go under the standard file hierarchy Debian uses, since the data files/executable are all in a local directory. So this would pose some problems. Also, they'd still have to download the .deb and install it themselves, which is actually _harder_ than compiling Eldritch under linux as it stands. Anyhow, I'm not about to try to sign myself up as a Debian maintainer so I can engage flamewars about licensing details or Debian policy or other crud like that, so I don't expect it would be on any of the repositories. And searching under 'wizardry' would probably be one of those things that'd start up a Debian licensing flamewar. Not my name to use, after all Of course if someone else wants to try to make a binary package of Eldritch that's great and I'll tell them what stuff is important and where they need to look to figure out how to cram things into the standard filesystem hierarchy (going to be some source changes associated with that so that it assumes some sort of prefix when it looks for files...). Honestly, I'm not going to go too far out of my way to 'sell' the game. I mostly wrote it as I did for my own amusement; if at a particular point in time I'm not that enthused about building on to it then I won't. If I get a bunch of people clamoring in with ideas/feedback/etc, then that can help of course, but eventually I will tack on stuff whenever I'm in the mood to do so.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Jul-23-06, 02:57 AM (Pacific) 27. "RE: A little inauguration present" dpkg -i eldritch.deb is pretty easy for installation I guess, but I admit it's maybe not the best of times becoming a Debian maintainer. Or maybe it's the best of times to improve Debian by becoming a responsible maintainer, heh. Another option not needing to take care of the Debian file hierarchy is making a klik package: http://klik.atekon.de/ While maybe a shared library system is more elegant and (in theory) easier to maintain, a self-contained program package has some advantages, too - first of all, it's not breakable by changing dependencies.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-23-06, 06:12 AM (Pacific) 28. "RE: A little inauguration present" Do you know if its legal to distribute with statically linked SDL, mikmod, etc? Also keep in mind that Eldritch is BSD licensed, not GPL, so that might cause problems as well. If it does I'll shrug and do it anyways, but I probably shouldn't try to do it over sourceforge at the least since they're probably the sort to be concerned with that kind of thing. Anyhow, a .tgz with a statically linked binary wouldn't be hard for me to do. I've honestly never heard of klik before. I sort of think 'click in browser to install' is the worst idea ever - the origin of spyware-infestation and the lot under windows   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Jul-23-06, 08:07 AM (Pacific) 29. "RE: A little inauguration present" Hehe, you are not surfing as root, are you? - I think it's a long way from klik to zombie bot nets. With any kind of package manager, you first and foremost have to trust the maintainer. I actually kinda fancy the klik package model, because it makes applications transparent for the user. No cryptic Registry modifications, no scattered libraries. I think it's similar to MacOS, every application is self-contained. I'm no expert in the license jungle, but I think as long as you're able to provide the sources to all your code, it shouldn't matter whether you mix BSD stuff with GPL or LGPL or any other open license.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-23-06, 10:21 AM (Pacific) 30. "RE: A little inauguration present" Even if you aren't surfing as root. What klik seems to do is make it possible for someone to hide binary data in a webpage which is installed and can be run. Once someone has any access to your machine, even local user, it's trivially easy to obtain root access by various methods of corrupting memory. Not to mention that its possible to shut down every program the user is running simply by fork-bombing the machine or allocating 99.9% of memory. Most people don't have their machines set up to do memory quotas or anything like that. Also, there are a startling number of people out there who would enter their root password any time a dialog pops up and asks for it. I'm not worried about click-to-install for things that the user really is looking to get. I'm worried about things like the little weatherbug and so on that you seem to find on everyone's windows machine but which they have no clue how it got there or how to get rid of it, because they clicked on some installer thing and just thought it was a standard dialog and clicked through. I don't even see a problem with surfing as root when I compare it to having a web browser which should just display information become directly tangled with the system's software payload. The way I like to think of it is, no matter what user I'm surfing as, I'm really surfing as root because going from local user to root is much easier than remotely getting local user account access. So if it comes to that, I'm already in trouble and I have no way of knowing how bad the break is. Plus you don't need root to relay spam, to spy on a user's browsing habits, to install a keylogger, etc. And the last of those three will very quickly get you root. General rule of thumb is that anything that executes foreign code of any kind is much more unsafe than data display and manipulation. Yes, data display can be used as an inlet to the system too via buffer overruns, but the most common attacks are those that use the ability to execute code on the machine somehow (attacks on webservers via the cgi-bin stuff, attacks via trojans in email which must be executed, even some javascript webpage-spoofing attacks). As far as self-contained though, for this sort of thing I tend to agree with you. Organization-wise, I prefer to have games in their own directories so if I want to clear them out its just rm eldritch/ -R. Whereas if things are scattered all over the system it becomes a royal pain to try to uninstall unless you put them there via some package manager. Libs however, there's no sense in having 200 versions of. Things like libpng, libSDL, etc should pretty much be on every system, and only one copy of them. The main problem is that a change to the lib can break programs linked to older versions, whereas a static linked program will keep working. But also, someone can speed up a lib or fix a bug in a lib and all the dynamically linked programs will benefit, whereas the static-linked programs will not. Things like system utilities should be put in the tree. It's useful to be able to 'tar' from any directory, etc. But its not really important to be able to play eldritch from /home/user or /home/user/eldritch with impunity I'll see what I can do about getting a static binary up on Sourceforge once I finish hunting down a few bugs. We'll see if anyone tries to sue me. Should be a laugh.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-24-06, 11:11 PM (Pacific) 31. "RE: A little inauguration present" Alright, updated (after a year and three days!). This one has a dos binary and linux 32bit, etc, etc binary. Unfortunately static-linking SDL is like pulling teeth because of its maze of dependencies, so the binary is dynamically linked. I.e. cross your fingers and pray. Needs SDL, mikmod, libpng at the very least. Get it here.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

ShadowCrust (373 posts) Jul-26-06, 02:00 AM (Pacific) 32. "RE: A little inauguration present" Works perfectly here (still Debian Sid), thanks for the work. I think that it basically boils down who you think you can trust (on the web). I trust the Debian maintainers (not that they won't break my system, but that they don't deliver intentionally malicious code at least), I trust some additional sources for apt. I also trust the klik guys. However, I don't trust a "free smilies" or a "get wallpapers for free" sites. I think it's easier and more secure to trust only one entity (Debian maintainers) instead of many entities (klik, self-compiled stuff, etc.), but that also limits my options. Some people even only trust people online with whom they exchanged their public keys, and sign their e-mails with their keys. Actually, many people on the Debian mailing list do that.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nichg (Guest) (9 posts) Jul-26-06, 07:41 AM (Pacific) 33. "RE: A little inauguration present" Well, its not as much about who you consciously put your trust in. It's fine to trust people. The problem is those people who don't understand what's going on, and so are tricked into things. Like a phishing email, it's not 'hey, I'm malicious and can I have your credit card number?', it's 'you need to go to your banking website to confirm you aren't a terrorist because we've been seeing strange charges to your account, please click on this link'. I'm not worried about the savvy users being caught by klik, I'm worried about people who use klik because thats the only level of difficulty of installation that they can actually understand enough to get to work.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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