Greatest RPG Fans Forum

"Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"

Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences Wizardry(r) 1-7 Conferences Wiz 7 - CoDS and Gold (Protected)
Original message

djstricker (0 posts) Click to EMail djstricker Click to send private message to djstricker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-27-05, 10:18 AM (Pacific)
"Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Hi all,

My apologies if this topic has been discussed already -- couldn't find it via search. Anyway, I was studying the "View Game Information" and "Calculations" screens in mad god's editor (thank you mad god!!!), and it seemed that a good idea for a totally optimized party is to start each character as a caster class with enough piety/vitality to maximize mana regen (18/15 for max). However, depending on how you decide to change classes over the course of the character's life, you could seriously impact the final "miss chance" of that character. According to the notes in the editor, miss chance starts at 100, and at every level up to and including 20, -if- max previous level is lower, a certain amount is deducted. But since caster classes generally deduct 1d3, and melee types 1d4+1 or 1d4+2, this could make a big difference over time. For instance, a character that spends its first 10 levels switching between a mage and an alchemist will have, on average, a miss chance of 80, whereas a character that starts as a samarai, and switches to and from a ninja until level 10, will have an average miss chance of 50. Even if both characters become ninjas for the remainder of their careers, the second will have a big advantage in miss chance.

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this? Does it make more of a difference than mana regen? I always thought my priests/mages missed more by virtue of their class, but maybe it was because, over time, the melees had developed a much lower miss chance.

Thanks!

  Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

  Table of Contents

 
 
Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

sphynx (14 posts) Click to EMail sphynx Click to send private message to sphynx Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-27-05, 10:47 AM (Pacific)
1. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
I don't know if this will help incredibly, but here are my characters, their Base Miss Chance, and what levels they did. They're all only level 11 as I've just started out and only gotten up to NewCity, Gorn Castle, and the Dane Tower:

Hobbit Lord/Valkyrie (Started as Ninja with stats to be a Lord)
- Ninja 5 levels
- Lord 5 levels (4 times)
- Valkyrie 5 levels (4 times)
- Lord 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 38

Rawulf Ninja/Samurai (Started as Samurai)
- Samurai 5 levels (5 times)
- Ninja 5 levels (4 times)
- Ninja 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 11

Fairy Ninja/Lord (Started as Ninja)
- Ninja 5 levels (5 times)
- Lord 5 levels (5 times)
- Ninja 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 31

Elven Ranger/Valkyrie (Started as Ninja)
- Ninja 5 levels
- Ranger 5 levels (4 times)
- Valkyrie 5 levels (5 times)
- Ranger 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 33

Elven Mage/Priest/Bishop (Started as Mage, 15 Vit, 18 Pie)
- Mage 5 levels (6 times)
- Priest 5 levels (6 times)
- Bishop 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 43

Fairy Mage/Bard (Started as Mage, 15 Vit, 18 Pie)
- Mage 4 levels (10 times)
- Bard 4 levels (10 times)
- Bard 11 levels
Base Miss Chance: 47

I quit multiclassing just before I started the Gorn Castle for all except my 2 Mage types. They quit half way through Gorn castle, just enough to get to level 8 before having to fight the Ghost of Murk, allowing the Mage/Priest a completed spell list, and the Bard with all the necessary thief skills maxxed as well as Artifacts (and a complete Mage spell list of course).

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

djstricker (0 posts) Click to EMail djstricker Click to send private message to djstricker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-27-05, 11:55 AM (Pacific)
2. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Thanks for the info; it is very helpful, specifically in that I never expected that it would be possible for the base miss chances to be so low at that level. Even in the best case, i.e. a Samurai, the best possible miss chance at level 11 should be 100 - (5 + (6 * 10)) = 35. Miss chance should not be improved by class switching, according to the notes in the editor. That is, a character should receive precisely 11 miss chance deductions upon reaching level 11: one at generation, and one for each -first- time they hit 2 through 11.

Mad god, can you perhaps comment on this? How are those base miss chances so low at that level? Maybe the level-up miss chance formula is affected by stats?

As it is, I really like the way you played it...your first 4 characters were created/leveled in a way to improve miss chance at the expense of mana regen, and the last 2 are just the opposite.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

djstricker (0 posts) Click to EMail djstricker Click to send private message to djstricker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-27-05, 12:17 PM (Pacific)
3. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Ahh, just figured it out. I didn't read carefully enough. You don't get miss chance reduction while max previous level is -higher-, but you do get it -at- max previous level. So in the case of your Rawulf Ninja/Samurai, you got 5 (at generation) + 10 * 1d4+2 (for levels 2-11) + 9 * 1d4+2 (for each time you revisited level 5). Since the average of 1d4 is 2.5, the average of the above expression is 90.5, with the miss chance being 9 or 10 (depending on rounding). Therefore, your miss chance of 11 is right where it should be.

Thanks again for the very accurate info, especially how many times you switched, etc. I would never have figured it out otherwise

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sphynx (14 posts) Click to EMail sphynx Click to send private message to sphynx Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-29-05, 10:10 AM (Pacific)
4. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
LAST EDITED ON Jul-29-05 AT 10:17 AM (Pacific)

Ok, got to level 20 and here were my 'final' results.

Lord/Valkyrie: 4%
Lord/Ninja: 0%
Samurai/Ninja: 0%
Ranger/Valkyrie: 2%

Mage/Thief/Bard: 26%
Mage/Priest/Bishop: 23%

Sphynx

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

djstricker (0 posts) Click to EMail djstricker Click to send private message to djstricker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-29-05, 11:19 PM (Pacific)
5. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Perfect -- these are roughly what I would expect based on the formula for each class. What's cool is that your miss chance does get a great benefit from class switching, so long as you always reach to the max previous level before you reclass.

Btw, if I may ask, where did you level your party during the phase where everyone was going up to level 5 and reclassing (except the Mage/Bard, who did so at 4)? The New City generator seems too hard...is there an easier way?

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

sphynx (14 posts) Click to EMail sphynx Click to send private message to sphynx Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-30-05, 00:36 AM (Pacific)
6. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-05 AT 01:04 AM (Pacific)

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-05 AT 00:40 AM (Pacific)

I don't use a generator, I just do it through exploring and re-fighting over and over to get the stats I need.

And knowing about 'HOLY SACRAMENT' and 'ARCHIVES' while still in New City helps.

However, I do cheat a bit.... I can't stand seeing a 2-round fight return 18 XP, so I edit all the monsters that are lower than 500 XP to be equal to 500 XP, it means I'm levelling up within the first couple of fights in the newbie dungeon instead of after nearly completing the 1st level. I've usually reached 5th level once before getting to the 2nd level. It makes a HUGE difference at the beginning of the game, but none at all later in the game.

I also do the following changes to the game (BTW, Mad God, if you're reading this, I love your program more everytime I use it, it's incredible. Going to work on new maps soon)

Loot 193: Replace Rock Crystals/Magic Missile Scroll slots with a Cameo Locket and Diamond Ring (I'm just too annoyed they aren't offered in-game, so I put them at old Ra-Sep-Ra-Tep.

Replace Loot 196 with 16 and Loot 16 with 196 (Cheezy as hell cheating, I'm sorry to disappoint anyone). Let's me have a cool armour/weapon set at the beginning for my Lord/Valkyrie (Crusader Outfit changed with the Potions chest in the Newbie Dungeon/Eryn River)

I also perform a Manage Quadrants on Map 13 so that the First Monster Set is 1 instead of 0. I do that on each quadrant. Those are the best fights in the entire game I think. I love taking 15ish rounds to kill a GodZylli, or the 6 Nuclear Blasts it takes to win against the Conquilado Hoardes...

Anyhows, back to the question. No Generator, but I do have to explore up to the Dane Tower almost to finish getting my levels I need before going back to the Gorn Castle. However, I've yet to not get it done fast enough to still get the Parchment, and usually get the Dane Parchment too, which I do right after the Gorn Castle.

  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

djstricker (0 posts) Click to EMail djstricker Click to send private message to djstricker Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-30-05, 09:55 PM (Pacific)
7. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Thank you -- at least I know how you got the job done, which was puzzling me before I wish there was a generator to make the process somewhat easier, but I guess not.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mad god (4 posts) Click to EMail mad%20god Click to send private message to mad%20god Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Aug-11-05, 00:16 AM (Pacific)
8. "RE: Mana Regen vs. Miss Chance"
Just create a one.
  Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Rate this topic (1=skip it, 10=must read)? [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 ]
Powered by DCF2000 ©1997-2000 by DCScripts. All rights reserved.