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"Returning to Game - Questions: class change, starting classes"

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Conferences Wizardry(r) 1-7 Conferences Wiz 7 - CoDS and Gold (Protected)
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jccurtis (0 posts) Click to EMail jccurtis Click to send private message to jccurtis Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-08-04, 08:59 AM (Pacific)
"Returning to Game - Questions: class change, starting classes"
Recently I ran into a program called DOSBox which supposedly allows a Windows XP or Linux machine to emulate DOS to play old video games. I remembered playing CoDS in grade school and thought it would be fun to give it another shot. I found a copy on E-Bay (for $2.95!) that was listed as new, so I bought it and began planning my party while I await the delivery. I was pretty amazed to find an active community still playing this game after so many years!

So I've read through this forum as far back as it goes, looking through class and party techniques, and I still have some questions I am hoping others can answer. It seems that the most efficient way to get through the game is to class change multiple times with your characters. Also, it seems like the starting class does not matter except for mana regeneration for the character. So let me state what I know so that ya'll can confirm it if you like.

Pure casters (mage, priest, alchemist, psionic) start with 2-3 mana regeneration in different schools of magic, as opposed to pure melees or hybrids who start with 1-2. A starting piety of 16 will give an additional +1 mana regeneration, 18 will give an additional +2. Race has nothing to do with mana regeneration. Therefore, the maximum mana regeneration is 5, in certain schools, by characters who start as pure casters with a piety of 18. Is this all true? If so, what does a mana regeneration of "5" mean? How often do you get 5 mana back? (Is it even called mana, or magic points? I forgot.)

The only other initial class note that seems relevant is that thieves get large bonuses to some thieving skills during the early levels, so it is very helpful to have a pure thief in the early game.

So should all characters optimally start as pure casters and then change class to something else to receive the maximum possible mana regeneration? Except for one character, who should be a thief to start receiving extra thieving skill points?

Another question. I have read a lot of hype about faerie ninjas, but also a lot of suggestions to start them off as thieves or alchemists (or both) to work up some of their skills before becoming a ninja. My question - how much do your starting stat bonus points matter if you are planning to change class? Since stats all return to absolute minimums given the race/class you change to, do you lose all the benefits of the extra bonus points you originally had? For example, if I start a faerie thief, who at level 5 gets the stats to become a ninja, and then levels as a ninja to level 3... is there any difference between that level 3 ninja and a faerie who started as a ninja from creation and became level 3 (assuming the faerie ninja was created with minimal stats)?

I have also read that when fighters are hit they receive double damage. Is this confirmed? Is there anyway to fix this? It rules out fighters as a useful class at all unless you are using the bug as a "feature" for added difficulty.

Before reading anything I had planned on making the following party, without dual classing:

fighter fighter thief priest mage mage

I was hoping the simple classes would allow me to level quickly, while still packing a punch with two mages in the back casting area effect spells. After learning that single class characters are much weaker than their dual class friends, I'm reconsidering. I also hesitate to use fighters if they are going to be getting pounded for double damage every time they get hit. At this point, I'm considering the following:

samurai valkyrie thief/ninja priest bard/mage mage

However, I am not sure what the most effective career paths should be for these characters. Given that mana regeneration is dependant only upon starting stats and class (is that correct?), it may be beneficial to start the samurai and valkyrie as pure casters and immediately class change them. Even the thief/ninja would benefit from starting as an alchemist and changing to thief immediately. Is this a bad idea because it eliminates initial stat bonuses, which could mean, for example, less hit points for the tanks because their stamina will take a long time to get back to what it might have originally been?

I've also thought about switching the valkyrie to a samurai and vice versa to give both the ability to critical hit. I'm curious - do class restrictions on equipment only apply to the current class?

Finally, is there any reason not to class change the priest and mages to elite classes at level 10? The mage into another samurai for example, and the priest into another valkyrie.

Is there an online manual I can read to review the basics of the game before it arrives in the mail?

Thanks a lot for any input!

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Dragon2k (806 posts) Click to EMail Dragon2k Click to send private message to Dragon2k Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-08-04, 02:28 PM (Pacific)
1. "RE: Returning to Game - Questions: class change, starting classes"
LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-04 AT 09:49 PM (Pacific) by Llevram (admin)

race does matter, actually. but only for Faeries and Lizardmen. a Faerie
gets +1 mana regen to all realms, while a Lizardman gets -1 to all realms, down to a minimum of 1. this means, a Faerie Fighter/thief gets +2 regen for every realm,
while a Lizardman mage will have 2 Fire, water, 1 air, earth, mental, and 2 divine regen points. (a regular mage starts with 3 Fire, Water, 2 Air, earth, mental, and 3 Divine Magic regeneration). this makes a Lizardman fighter not a bad choice (also helps that the fighter has no magic anyway), and makes Faeries a very popular Magic User class.
for Human, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, Hobbit, Dracon, Felpurr, Rawulf, and Mook, no bonus or penalty to mana regeneration.
as for Mana vs Magic, the game technically calls them Fire/Water/Earth/Air/Mental/Divine Magic Points. Mana is just easier for us to type, and means the same thing, the amount of spell power a character has (like Hit Points/vitality in some games). a synonym, if you will.

My question - how much do your starting stat bonus points matter if you are planning to change class? Since stats all return to absolute minimums given the race/class you change to, do you lose all the benefits of the extra bonus points you originally had? For example, if I start a faerie thief, who at level 5 gets the stats to become a ninja, and then levels as a ninja to level 3... is there any difference between that level 3 ninja and a faerie who started as a ninja from creation and became level 3 (assuming the faerie ninja was created with minimal stats)?

they help by giving your characters extra HP, Stanima, and Magic points (if applicable), and also the spells you gain as an Alchemist can still be cast even if the new class can't cast spells. at level 3, your alchemist->ninja can cast a level 3 Heal Wounds or sleep spell. same if you changed him/her to a fighter or thief.
they also help by helping your characters survive and build up their skills, like a thief learns ninjutsu, which is a great help to a ninja. extra dexterity and speed help gain multiple attacks, which in turn helps them practice weapon skills.
the only difference between your hybrid character (the alchemist->ninja in this example) and the purebred (started off as a ninja and never class changed) is that the Hybrid has every skill s/he learned in the first class (like alchemy and some good basic spells), and that helps the ninja because a Ninja doesn't gain very much in Acedemia, and also has Kirijutsu to worry about, so you can maybe put 5 points in one or the other, or split them up. this is really why people class change. another, is that the enemies you face give more XP when defeated, allowing for pretty fast level ups early on (the new class starts off at level 1 and only requires 9-15 hundred XP, while a level 7 character needs 57-95 THOUSAND XP for 1 level. so fighting the same amount, a class changed character can gain 6 levels, each level up giving additional points to put in Alchemy and Kirijutsu.

as for Fighter's Double damage recieving, it is true, as both Mad God and I have experianced it. Fighters take more damage from most Weapon based attacks. Magical attacks do the normal amount of damage. while this seems horrible, in reality, the Fighter has more than enough hit points to handle it, and if they don't, chances are your not at high enough level anyway. Armorplate, Armor shield, and Missile Shield can help, if needed. the second one being very cheap and very effective. 1 earth point per power level

Before reading anything I had planned on making the following party, without dual classing:

fighter fighter thief priest mage mage

a classic Wizardry Starting party, going all the way back to Wizardry 1. this gets your party through the starter dungeon and into new city, and weaponry skills for the fighters should quickly max out, which helps greatly when changing to a Lord/Valkyrie or Samurai, and the former can use the same weapons and armor as the fighter which greatly helps offset the lower level, stats, and attacks they lose during the change (which they will regain with levels)
the thief is almost a necessity, since there are quite a few treasure chests for him to disarm safely (so your party doesn't get blown up, ruining the find), and can hide, which helps his pretty low attack power and weak armor.
the magic users are good, being able to sleep the 2 main monster groups helps all through the game. you also get Fireball faster than a Bishop can (Bishop gains levels much slower, and only learns one spell per level, one mage spell, then a priest spell, the mage spells coming at even level ups, and the priest spells coming at odd level ups)
samurai valkyrie thief/ninja priest bard/mage mage
also a good party. you've got 2 good fighters, 3 magic users (remember bard learns mage spells, as well as using instriments, double your fun!), and the class change to Ninja (after maxing out Ninjutsu and building up Skullduggery to at least 50) will mean much more punch (pun intended), once he beats up a few monster groups. a ninja gains multple attacks and swings per attack really fast (3 attacks per round with 2 swings each at level 7, without any dexterity or speed bonuses, provided fighting barehanded), while the bard -> mage will gain loads of Magic spells and points (only for each spell you choose to learn, the other realms get 1 more Magic point each, so choosing to learn Fireball will get you 6 more Fire points)

Given that mana regeneration is dependant only upon starting stats and class (is that correct?)

yes, this is correct. fighters/thieves start with 1 regeneration in each realm, and pure spell casters get 2-4 in each realm (depending on the class, Psionics get 4 in Mental for example), while hybrid characters get 1-3 regeneration in each realm (actually, 1 point less than their pure magic user counterparts)
the main reason to start off as a Hybrid class, is taht you need some fighters to pull you through. a party of pure magic users only lasts until their magic runs out, then they're screwed, which is only 2 weak spells in the beginning per character.

I've also thought about switching the valkyrie to a samurai and vice versa to give both the ability to critical hit. I'm curious - do class restrictions on equipment only apply to the current class?

yep. a valkyrie (or any other class for that matter) changed to a Samurai loses the ability to equip a broadsword or spear, and gains the ability to wield a Katana and wakazashi.

Finally, is there any reason not to class change the priest and mages to elite classes at level 10? The mage into another samurai for example, and the priest into another valkyrie.

only later, when Level matters, and you need a level 7 nuclear blast spell NOW), for once they class change, the character needs to be, I believe at level 13 to cast that spell at level 7. changing one character at a time helps offset the level penalty, but eventually, the regular classes just seem weak and quite limited (with Samurai, monk, and ninja, criticals will come quite common later, against monsters you might spend another 10-15 minutes on with a standard quickie party)

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Shogun (0 posts) Click to EMail Shogun Click to send private message to Shogun Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-11-04, 08:16 PM (Pacific)
8. "RE: Returning to Game - Questions: class change, starting classes"
Just a note on the above post.
It bizarrley doesn't convert to a printable format with the 'printer friendly' option. Hence it does not fit on an A4 page.
This ia a bit annoying, as I often print of these discussions for reference later.
Can someone (maybe Mr Moderater) check this out? Cheers.
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Llevram (5415 posts) Click to EMail Llevram Click to send private message to Llevram Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-11-04, 09:50 PM (Pacific)
9. "Try it now"
I replaced the "code" tags with italics ...

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

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Shogun (0 posts) Click to EMail Shogun Click to send private message to Shogun Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-11-04, 10:32 PM (Pacific)
10. "RE: Try it now"
cheers. Heaps better.
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Dragon2k (806 posts) Click to EMail Dragon2k Click to send private message to Dragon2k Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-12-04, 01:38 PM (Pacific)
11. "RE: Try it now"
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-04 AT 01:39 PM (Pacific)

tried quote and /quote, but the board doesn't use the quote tags (which does something like HTML Blockquote tag, offsetting the quoted text.
Sorry about that. forgot about the Italic tags. just tried too hard.

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-08-04, 02:33 PM (Pacific)
2. "So many questions; some answers"
Let me start with a caveat: MOST of my experience is actually in Bane, but CODS is generally consistent with Bane. To the extent I make mis-statements, I am sure others will correct me.

>It seems that the most efficient
>way to get through the
>game is to class change
>multiple times with your characters.

Well, that's the "best" way to get uber-characters: lots of hit points, lots of mana points, lots of skill points, and all spells. Probably all of us have played at least one game like that . It is not necessary for completing the game, and it isn't really that much fun. On the other hand, no class-changing is quite a challenge, and also (IMO) uninteresting. I recommend some limited class-changing in the early game to get a reasonably-survivable number of hit points (~100 base for all characters) and skill points before settling on a final class for each character.

>Also, it seems like the
>starting class does not matter
>except for mana regeneration for
>the character.

Caveat: the Poet's Lute is only available to a character who begins as a bard; it is not otherwise obtainable in the game.

>A starting piety of
>16 will give an additional
>+1 mana regeneration, 18 will
>give an additional +2.

Almost right. Starting piety of 16+ AND vitality of 10+ gives +1 to mana regeneration; starting piety of 18 AND vitality of 15+ gives an additional +1 (i.e., total of +2). -- From MG's editor.

>Race has nothing to do with
>mana regeneration.

Not quite: Lizards have a -1 (down to a minimum of 1) and Faeries have a +1 in all six categories.

>what does a mana regeneration
>of "5" mean? How often
>do you get 5 mana
>back?

My experience in Bane (but I suspect CODS is similar, if not identical): each hour (essentially, 60 keystrokes, although some categories of keystrokes/clicks do not count, such as during battles or while in the character review screen), each character regenerates up to their mana regeneration number in each of the six areas. Thus, a character with regeneration rate of 3-3-2-2-3-2 will recover 0-3 fire mana points, 0-3 water . . . , etc. When your characters camp, they rest for 8 hours (if uninterrupted), so they go through this regeneration 8 times. (Note: in Bane, at least, this recovery is phased, so the same character can regenerate mana six-times as fast by shifting positions within the party. However, most people are not interested in playing such an anally-retentive strategy.)

>The only other initial class note
>that seems relevant is that
>thieves get large bonuses to
>some thieving skills during the
>early levels, so it is
>very helpful to have a
>pure thief in the early
>game.

Nah. According to MG, every class has its own "special skills" that the computer will automatically allocate some skill points to upon level up. Yes, the thief's special skills are skullduggery and legerdemain, (1) other classes have comparable experiences with their own special skills, and (2) it isn't really a "bonus," at all: these are skill points that the computer allocates for you, instead of allowing you to allocate them. I'd much rather make the choices myself.

>Another question. I have read a
>lot of hype about faerie
>ninjas,

Just because of the infamous Cane of Corpus. If you want to murder an innocent mouse(mostly-innocent? how about, "less guilty than OJ"?) once or twice (!!), you might as well take along a future-ninja-faerie (or two). Otherwise, don't worry about it. They certainly aren't necessary to complete the game.

>but also a lot
>of suggestions to start them
>off as thieves or alchemists
>(or both) to work up
>some of their skills before
>becoming a ninja.

Primarily because in order to start out as a ninja, the faerie must be created with 21+ bonus points - a difficult roll.

>My question
>- how much do your
>starting stat bonus points matter
>if you are planning to
>change class?

Depending upon the class you want to change to, and how long you are willing to wait, a great deal. Distribute your bonus points to pave the way for your change to the next class (which, ideally, is one of the "elite" classes, with lots of required minimum stats, so you don't "fall" very far).

>For >example, if I start a
>faerie thief, who at level
>5 gets the stats to
>become a ninja, and then
>levels as a ninja to
>level 3... is there any
>difference between that level 3
>ninja and a faerie who
>started as a ninja from
>creation and became level 3
>(assuming the faerie ninja was
>created with minimal stats)?

Quite a few differences, actually, some of which are implicit in what we already discussed: (1) for the nominal price of 7,200 experience points, your thief-ninja will have four more levels worth of skill points than the pure ninja; (2) the thief-ninja will also have more hit points, although so far, as a ninja, he has only been earning 1 hp/level, and that will continue until he reaches level 5; (3) the pure ninja will have a slightly higher mana regeneration - specifically, in 3 of the six areas (I forget which 3, but probably fire, air and earth, as these are the areas favored by the alchemical classes), the pure ninja's regeneration rate will be 1 point higher than the thief-ninja's, assuming everything else (starting piety & vitality) is equal; (4) you may spend HOURS trying to roll up the pure ninja but only minutes to roll up the thief-ninja. I think that about covers it.

>I have also read that when
>fighters are hit they receive
>double damage. Is this confirmed?
>Is there anyway to fix
>this?

A confirmed bug that MG's editor will fix. For MG's editor, visit Snafaru's website: http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/wizardry/
Llevram also maintains a link to Snafaru on the software specialties homepage: http://www.softwarespecialties.com (look under "Favorites"). It is polite to give thanks for all three gentlemen for their contributions.


>Before reading anything I had planned
>on making the following party,
>without dual classing:
>
>fighter fighter thief priest mage mage

Did anyone else just have a flashback to their Proving Grounds party(ies)?

>At this point, I'm considering the
>following:
>
>samurai valkyrie thief/ninja priest bard/mage mage

Basic, well-rounded, do-able. (Actually, just about anything is do-able. Someone once completed the game with a solo thief, without class changes, although I expect it took a while and there were plenty of reloads required in the early stages.) You lack a psionic class, but by most people's reckoning, that isn't much of a deficit.

>Given that mana regeneration is
>dependant only upon starting stats
>and class (is that correct?),
>it may be beneficial to
>start the samurai and valkyrie
>as pure casters and immediately
>class change them. Even the
>thief/ninja would benefit from starting
>as an alchemist and changing
>to thief immediately. Is this
>a bad idea because it
>eliminates initial stat bonuses, which
>could mean, for example, less
>hit points for the tanks
>because their stamina will take
>a long time to get
>back to what it might
>have originally been?

The basic trade-off is as you note: hit points vs. mana regeneration. The pure casters will begin with 1/2 to 2/3 the hit points of the elites. That means more deaths (more reloads) in the early game, but it ceases to be relevant after a few class changes and level ups. However, the same can be said for mana regeneration rates: because of the number and availability of mana-regenerating fountains (among other things, like rechargeable mana stones), you won't want to rely upon your regeneration rate to recover mana. I'll admit that I always try to negotiate high regeneration rates for my imports from Bane, but this is not at all important for the game play.

>I'm curious - do class
>restrictions on equipment only apply
>to the current class?

Correct: with the exception of cursed items put on during a previous class, only the character's current class determines the weapons and equipment that can be equipped. (Okay, there are also gender and race restrictions for some items, but I don't think anyone was confused, here.)

>Finally, is there any reason not
>to class change the priest
>and mages to elite classes
>at level 10? The mage
>into another samurai for example,
>and the priest into another
>valkyrie.

Shucks, I wouldn't wait that long, but that's just me. Changing to a samurai, the character will require more experience for each level; changing to a valkyrie, the character will actually require less experience per level. (Is that, like, affirmative action gone awry?) Both characters will gain access to much better weapons and armor. Because of a class change, they will have more skill points, hit points, and spells than if they didn't make the change. Until they regain their former level, they will not be able to cast spells at as high a level and they will have less resistance (resistances are level-dependent). If you are trying to role-play something, you might be breaking the bounds of your story but, no, there really isn't any reason not to make this change. Depending upon how long you wait to change class, by the endgame, you will notice NO negative differences between the class-changed character and the unchanged character. (Even their levels will be the same, because the experience points required for the lower levels are trivial compared to the experience required for levels 12 and higher.)

>Is there an online manual I
>can read to review the
>basics of the game before
>it arrives in the mail?

Not that I am aware of, which means you may be stumbling around a bit as you try to figure out the really basic things like how to camp, how to cast a spell, how to inspect, disarm or open a chest, how to unlock a door, etc. However, you can learn a lot of these things through relatively simple trial-and-error, and the rest, you can get answers for here.

>Thanks a lot for any input!

Welcome (back) to our world.


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Dragon2k (806 posts) Click to EMail Dragon2k Click to send private message to Dragon2k Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-08-04, 08:23 PM (Pacific)
4. "RE: So many questions; some answers"
>>but also a lot
>>of suggestions to start them
>>off as thieves or alchemists
>>(or both) to work up
>>some of their skills before
>>becoming a ninja.

>Primarily because in order to start out as a ninja, the faerie >must be created with 21+ bonus points - a difficult roll.

almost right. the guide you referred to states 21, but, in fact it is 19 points needed for a male faerie ninja, 21 for female.

faerie base stats:
5 STR
11 Int
6 Pie
6 Vit
10 Dex
14 Spd
12 Per

ninja needs:
12 Str
10 Int
10 Pie
12 Vit
12 Dex
12 Spd

mathwise
12 - 5 = 7 STR
11 > 10 so, 0 points for Int
10 - 6 = 4 Pie
12 - 6 = 6 Vit
12 - 10 = 2 Dex
14 >= 12 so 0 Spd needed
no personality requirment.
7+4+6+2 = (4 + 6) + (7 + 2) = 10 + 9 = 19

now, Females lose 2 points in Str, to gain 1 in Per, so they now need 2 more bonus points, for a female faerie ninja.
thankfully, this isn't the toughest character to roll. a Male Lizardman Bishop requires 25 bonus points (10 each for Int, Pie and 5 for personality)

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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-09-04, 04:17 AM (Pacific)
5. "RE: So many questions; some answers"
>almost right. the guide you referred
>to states 21, but, in
>fact it is 19 points
>needed for a male faerie
>ninja, 21 for female.

Well, we're both right, because we were talking about different things. You are correct that, in terms of the number of bonus points actually needed, a male faerie needs 19 while a female faerie needs 21. However, I was talking about what you needed to ROLL: You cannot roll 19 bonus points. The minimum roll having at least 19 bonus points is 21. If CODS continues the same odds as in Bane, this will be one roll in 400, while a 13-18 roll (from which one can create a good starting thief/alchemist-ninja) is 20 times more common.

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Dragon2k (806 posts) Click to EMail Dragon2k Click to send private message to Dragon2k Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-09-04, 02:02 PM (Pacific)
6. "RE: So many questions; some answers"
I swear I had a roll of exactly 19 once, so maybe the algorithm used differs slightly from bane -> Cods. still, I got rolls of 21 or higher a few times, and 19 only once or twice.
since we're on the subject of rolls, what is the highest possible roll one can get? some record 32, I myself have recorded 26 as my high roll.
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Scary (16 posts) Click to EMail Scary Click to send private message to Scary Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-09-04, 07:50 PM (Pacific)
7. "32, according to Brenda"
Back in the old days, while Sir-Tech was still working on Wiz8 and we had occasional conversations with the developers, Brenda at Sir-Tech (who had also worked on CODS) confirmed that 32 was the highest possible bonus points roll in CODS. At least one other poster also confirmed having achieved that number. Like you, the highest I have ever succeeded in getting for myself is 26. MG can probably tell us the full range and the relative probabilities, as he has already done so for Bane.
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mad god (4 posts) Click to EMail mad%20god Click to send private message to mad%20god Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-12-04, 10:50 PM (Pacific)
12. "RE: 32, according to Brenda"
Bane & Cods has more or less the same main algorithm.
But according to my information it is impossible to get 19 using that algorithm.... there are probably some others things I don't know.

Possible bonuses:
Bane: 5-10, 13-18, 21-26
Cods: 9-10, 8-11, 13-18, 21-26

Cods also has a code part to generate 21-30, but it never called (I think)

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jccurtis (0 posts) Click to EMail jccurtis Click to send private message to jccurtis Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
Jul-08-04, 06:11 PM (Pacific)
3. "Thanks!"
Scary and Dragon2k, Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely check out that editor to correct the fighter bug (thanks Mad God and all who contributed). You've given me a lot to mull over while I wait for my shipment, thanks again! -Josh
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Dan The Man (Guest) (1 posts) Click to check IP address of the poster
Aug-30-04, 12:03 PM (Pacific)
13. "RE: Returning to Game - Questions: class change, starting classes"
About the Faerie Ninja... The best way to handle this character is indeed to start as a thief, work up your skuldugery, then change to a ninja. Interestingly, a faerie can class change back and forth between ninja and lord classes with ease because the class stat requirements are almost the same. That makes it very easy to build up skills (critical hit!!) Incedentily it is best to class change before level 7 (its a big exp jump to level 8) And ,of course, the only reason to get a faerie ninja at all is because it is the only race/class combo that can use the 'cane of corpus' the best weapon in the game, second only to the *Light Sword*. You get the cane by killing Blienmies in the Rattkin Ruins. If you are going to have any chance to kill that fast rat bastard though, you must get your SPD and DEX stats up tp 20 (yes, that is possible without "cheating")by visiting the Dame in Sky City and buying a whole mess of ankhs from her.

Another character I like making starts as an elf (race chosen for ease of class changing) alchemist who alternates class changes between a ranger and a ninja. The big plus here is that you can very quickly build up alchemy skill to get some of the best boss killers in the game: deadly poison, crush, deep freeze and level 7 creation (Godzilla on your side!)

If you want to class change like mad in the beginning to build up your dudes, Just use the New City fountain by the Legend map to recoup as you go.

I have been through the game with a 2 person party and even a single person party w/o messing with game code (although the beginning build up phase requires the 'easy' difficulty setting and *frequent* trips to fountains. My favorite is the 2 person party because in a 1 person party, paralysis ends it, whereas with a partner to unparalyze the other it is easier to keep going.

Happy gaming with the best game ever made!

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