First off, I come from a long lineage of Black Isle role playing gameplay and I must admit that I was very hesitant to play Wiz 8 but I will say that this is one of the most fun games I have ever played. Of course, my social life consists of staring at women NPC's bodices but I digress....

There is one Umpani that hates me. I fought some Piercer Modai's right before I entered the Camp but the Lt. who greeted me (name escapes me) died in the confrontation. After the battle, all the Umpani were cool. However, when I rolled in to the camp I noticed a red dot up on the left tower. Thinking nothing of it, I let myself be recruited, picked up that annoying Trynnie Sparkle, and left to see nice Mr. Rubble. But everytime I near him that tower red dot (turns out to be some random Umpani Lt.) starts a fight and then I have the entire populace ready to take care of me in an old school kind of way!! I cannot continue because I want to train. I know there are other ways to beat the game but I would like to get past this situation. Does anyone have any ideas? Is there a cheat to make this dude like me?

• RE: I thought I was good...but they still hate me!!,Jem, 05:20 AM, Mar-19-02
• He will chill out,Llevram, 07:48 AM, Mar-19-02
  • Poor Sparkle,Kuli, 12:57 PM, Mar-19-02
  • YOU KILLED SPARKLE ?!?!?!,rbrown, 01:04 PM, Mar-19-02
    • RE: YOU KILLED SPARKLE ?!?!?!,nomad, 02:29 PM, Mar-19-02
      • I'm not RP'ing this time through :) n/t,Llevram, 09:20 PM, Mar-19-02
• RE: I thought I was good...but they still hate me!!,Cable (Guest), 12:51 PM, Mar-19-02
  • RE: I thought I was good...but they still hate me!!,Kuli, 12:59 PM, Mar-19-02
    • RE: I thought I was good...but they still hate me!!,Wizardry Rookie (Guest), 03:50 PM, Mar-19-02
• So, how are Black Isle games?,Llevram, 09:18 PM, Mar-19-02
  • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,lethe19, 10:06 AM, Mar-20-02
    • Baldur's Gate 2,Kuli, 11:38 AM, Mar-20-02
      • RE: Baldur's Gate 2,Duke of Earl (Guest), 12:10 PM, Mar-20-02
        • Fighting engine,Kuli, 08:36 AM, Mar-21-02
      • RE: Baldur's Gate 2,lethe19 (Guest), 05:42 PM, Mar-20-02
        • RE: Baldur's Gate 2,whatever (Guest), 06:01 PM, Mar-20-02
    • Hey, I can only spread myself so thin ,Llevram, 10:10 PM, Mar-20-02
      • RE: Hey, I can only spread myself so thin ,whatever (Guest), 12:45 PM, Mar-21-02
  • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,Wizardry Rookie (Guest), 09:37 PM, Mar-20-02
    • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,Achila (Guest), 05:07 PM, Mar-28-02
      • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,whatever (Guest), 05:21 PM, Mar-28-02
        • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,Achila (Guest), 11:52 AM, Mar-30-02
          • RE: So, how are Black Isle games?,Wizardry Rookie (Guest), 11:18 AM, Apr-08-02
      • RE: other first-person games,HolyWarrior (Guest), 06:25 PM, Jun-05-02
• Black Isle is VASTLY overrated,HolyWarrior (Guest), 05:39 PM, Jun-08-02
  • RE: Black Isle is VASTLY overrated,cdemille (Guest), 07:09 AM, Jun-15-02
• RE: I thought I was good...but they still hate me!!,noname (Guest), 07:00 AM, Nov-02-02

Best thing to do is just stay out of his line of sight as much as possible and when you can't, stay as far from him as possible to not trigger combat. You might want to invest in a few Tinctures of Shadows or the Chameleon spell to help you hide from him. He might get more friendly by the end of the game, however.

My understanding is that if you attack any green dot while any of his/her allies can see you, all those allies immediately become hostile. The same happens sometimes if you accidently kill one of your allies when they get between you and the enemy (though wounding them is fine). And if it's a recruitable NPC (which all come back to life if YOU kill them but not if they get killed while part of your team) then afterwards that person hates you...at least for awhile.

For me, the Umpani bar is offlimits because I recruited Saxx and took him off to a private spot and killed him for the Saxaphone. Now he's back and showing as red on my X-ray so I don't go into the bar at all or he and the bartender will both attack me.

At any rate, it seems to me the 2nd situation is the one you are in. You're just going to have to work around him until he cools off.

(eventually)

I killed Sparkle on the compound and one of the tower guys saw me, so every time I got in his LOS, he would go hostile and initiate combat.

It was more an annoyance than anything else (and well worth wiping the earth the of that damn gibbering, chittering, teetering Sparkle, but now I digress ). Eventually, he did forgive me and stopped going hostile.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

Oh, poor Sparkle. I haven't recruited her, because I qwas Level 13 when I first entered Mt. Gigas. But I liked her friendly way: "Guys, guys, remember me?" She's really cute and next time I will recruit her for a while. She seems to be a good soul, not like "Glumph" or all the others who are plain aggressive or arrogant or stupid!

YOU KILLED SPARKLE ??? YOU BIG MEANIE !!!

She is a cheerful enthusiastic psycho killer, like Callisto on Xena Warrior Princess, except without the boobs. After I watched her make 3 criticals on 3 Rapax Scouts in the 6th Bough Library, she is part of my parties wherever she wants to go.

I CAN NOT BELIEVE YOU WOULD KILL SPARKLE!!!!!

If I am really RP'ing I recruit her and go get the rats in Trynton. I release her after talking to Madras after.

Other than that, i just ignore her. KILL her??? NO way!!!

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

If I am not mistaken I had a similar experience my first go through. All Umpani in the towers were hostile towards me. I didn't attack anything and avoided all fights with wandering critters. The only reason I can think that they became hostile towards me is that I took down the Umpani flag from the flag pole outside the fort.

Haha, what would you do, if someone came into your garden and took your beloved flag I bet most people would go nuts seeing this. Btw.: you can buy a flag in the commissionary, if you didn't know.

Hot Damn, that's it!!! I took that flag down and now they hate me!! Well, that makes a lot more sense. So here's the next question, oh gurus of the board...since a rookie like me took the flag down, is there a way to make amends and send it back up?? Other thoughts??

So, which ones did you play and how do you compare them (or rate them), compared to Wiz 8? Just curious, as I have never picked them up.

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-02 AT 10:09 AM (Pacific)

omg llevram!

am i hearing you correctly? ::goes over his post, making sure she's not misreading it::

any lover of rpgs should have Planescape:Torment and Fallout 1 & 2 displayed prominently in their "greatest games" section of their collection. "What can change the nature of a man?" ~ the theme of PST hooked me right away. I replayed it 3 times in a row, not only because the game was wonderful, but the endings were so rivetting.

the fallout games are considered classics by just about everybody. post-apocalyptic future where bottle caps are the currency of the day. trashed out cities full of junkies and whores, all trying to relieve you of your carefully hoarded stuff. everything and everybody is for sale. but your goal is to find some water. start out an innocent and end up an outcast.

icewind dale is more hack and slash, and some peeps think its not "deep" enough for them, but i love it. the music is by jeremy soule, who has to be THE best musician/composer for ANY media today. i thought the story was great and the ending was perfect.

sorry to go on about the endings so much, but to me, many of today's games have THE worst, lamest, and downright stoopid endings. these ones don't. all these games concentrate on the craft of writing, story telling and character development.

you can find these games pretty cheap if you look, so no more excuses. take a leap of faith and get one.

comparing them to wiz8? different play style, different look, different systems for developing your character. BUT exactly alike in immersiveness, and that elusive "something" that keeps you coming back for more.

lethe19

ps: also, i think, like wiz8, they all are "game or rpg of the year" for their respective years.

I have only played BG2 + Extension. It's quite good and very (!) large. It's amusing to play with the NPCs you recruit, they are very talkative and often interfere in talks with people you meet. The story is quite satisfying and involving and there are many sidquests, maybe too many.

The bad thing is that the puzzles are barely existant. Items are used automatically so you don't have to think for yourself. I don't like puzzles like the maps in Wiz7, but a little bit more complicated than exploring and picking up everything is appreciated.

The worst thing, compared to Wiz6-8, is the character-development. While the creation is okay, levelling is just boring: after Level 10 or so, you only gain a three HP or so and every three Lvls or so you gain one (!) skill point for weaponry. Attributes can't be raised in the game. Considering that characteradvancement is half the fun in a RPG BG2 is no good game

Yeah, but that's how the AD&D rules are... I agree with you, though; character development is way better in Wiz.

I've played demos of BG 1 and 2 and I'd really have liked to play them if not for that chaotic and (for me) unplayable real-time combat. So I missed out on a lot of good RPGs (BG1+2,I.Dale and PST) just because they all use that same system.

I've only played Fallout 1 but I think it was quite good. A pity you only had 1 character.

Oh, and if any of you like First-Person Shooters as well, try Deus Ex; IMHO it's the best combo of RPG and Shoot-em-up.

-- The Duke

I don't like real time combat, too, but at least in BG2 you can always pause the combat and giving new commands to the characters. And the fight bases on rounds, which is very important for magic (the chars will only cast if they have the order at the beginning of the round and then when their initiative allows them to.
With the auto-pause settings you can exactly decide when the fights are paused (sighting creatures, having killed an opponent, having cast a spell etc.)
What I have forgotten earlier is that BG2 has a GREAT coop-Multiplayer-Modus. If you and your mate have 200 hours and don't know what to do with them then playing BG2 is amazing. It's a whole new world of battletactics and communication.

BG games are Bioware games, right? i thot we were talking about Black Isle games.

lethe19

count bioware, black isle, and interplay in the same boat with RPGs like that. im personally a fallout 2 person (played through it over 19 times...13 of those were CONSECUTIVE over one Christmas break...still finding new things).

i personally play through all the bg games (infinity engine) in a row, using character editors to bring my favorites along. bg2 is an excellent example of characters you can really get to know...but the bg (DnD) rules are pretty crappy when it comes to development. I personally like leveling constantly, not exponentially...(the 3hp deal is a pain in the tookus lol). the thing to remember in those games is that a lvl 30 character is near demi-god status...unlike other games where lvl 99 is just "pretty darn tough". we're talking final fantasy 30-hit per round, 9999 damage each hit etc etc lol. (comparatively speaking of course)

you can get fallout 1 bundled with 2 for under 15 dollars.
fallout tactics is rogue by most fallout fans, and is officially a squad-based tactics game.

the bg games are standard priced (they still sell very well) and have editors out the wazoo...you can really create a character from absolute scratch if you want. a lot more freedom than wizardry (and thats saying something)

someone mentioned deus (day-us) ex above...try System Shock 2 as well...fps rpg...incredible game. and if you like THAT, try the thief series...game runs on the same engine.

theres my 2 cents....err dollars...for all that writing

(I've got my wedding to plan, my wife to murder, Guilder to frame for it ..... )

I wanted to play Baldur's gate adn Planescape, but just haven't found the time. Too busy with Wizardry (and life in general) ... gotta get the convertible restored and on the road before Spring passes me by (again, for the 3rd time)

Tools for Wizardry(r) 7

well considering black isle and interplay have been shot repeatedly and are currently bleeding to death in a pool of their own vomit (www.rpgplanet.com/fallout has a recent post about it), IWD2 looks like it might be the last infinity engine game for a while. fallout 3 looks to be done in as well...and TORN (torment meets fallout) was cancelled a while ago.

therefore, there's gonna be a lack of good RPGs coming...you should have plenty of time to play all those games be sure to marry someone who enjoys them too. LAN PARTY!!!! wo0t!

First off, Black Isle has a major part if not the entire enchilada in the following games: BG/BG2, Planescape, Icewind/Icewind 2, and Fallout/Fallout 2. Well, at least in my book.

I agree with most of the sentiments of the other posts on here. Black Isle's Icewind Dale series is what really hooked me along with Bioware's BG1 and BG2. I absolutely love those types of battle scenes where you can actually see your character that you've shaped and molded into a killing machine destroy some trash-talking ogres. It's really a total contrast to Wiz8's style. I'm probably going to make enemies here but I actually liked BG2 and it's expansion better than Wiz8 basically due to the combat style. As stated by others, Planescape is basically the same engine as BG and it's got an amazing storyline. And Fallout/Fallout 2 are fun. Also, with Icewind Dale II coming out I'm sure to really not move my ass far from my computer. And then there's Jedi Knight II and Heroes of Might and Magic IV and...oh, my...that's a whole other board so I'll stop there.

Are there any other games out there besides Wiz that are first person? I personally hate those top-down games.

-=Achila=-

well officially, theyre to be isometric, not top-down

system shock 2 and deus ex are fps. notice the S for shooter after the fp. you do build stats and skills in both games...and they are generally listed in RPG categories in gaming sites etc. i can personally vouch for both. you can re-play them a ton of times. shock still scares the bejeezus outta me playing with headphones on in the middle of the night.

as to first person rpg's like this?
theres a recent wizards and warriors one, elder scrolls games, and maybe some might and magic?

to be honest, wizardy 8 is the first 1st person rpg ive played....i never liked games where you couldnt see your chars (stems back to dragon warrior vs final fantasy on the NES).

daggerfall is an OLD one for the pc...its not party-based i dont think. tough to find too.
hexen 2 has experience building in it...but its still 90% quake 10% rpg.

theres a few on the playstation, but theyre incredibly difficult and sorta suck. theres a new wizardry one for the ps2 as well. sposed to be pretty darn tough. the SNES has eye of the beholder, i remember which is just like the early wiz games.

there's a few ideas anyways.

Thanks a lot for your input! The Wiz games are the only ones I've ever played (except a little of The Magic Candle, which I couldn't stand, after playing Wiz 6), and since there probably won't be a Wiz 9, I'm looking for a reasonable facsimile.

-=Achila=-

I'm a little late for this post but here goes...

There are a number of first person games that are flat out incredible. System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are very good, as is Half Life (arguably the best first person ever), No One Lives Forever (good action, very fun storyline, hot lead character--er, if you're into that sort of thing), any of the Jedi Knight games (Star Wars first person is a must!), Alice (demented Alice in Wonderland w/ a great storyline, pretty easy game), and the latest of my favorites, Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

Those are just a few of the good ones out there. Good luck!

The entire Might & Magic series is first person. I recommend 6 & 7, as they are most similar to Wiz 8. If you're in a retro mood, nothing beats World of Xeen.
Unfortunately, 3DO is running the Might & Magic franchise into the ground...

I grew up on Might & Magic, and honestly can't see what the appeal is with Black Isle. Combat and travel are SO tedious, AD&D magic system is the worst, with spells you never use--and you have to pick the exact ones you'll use before combat. The only Black Isle game I played to completion was Torment. THAT was a worthy game, but can't say the same for BG or (snore) Icewind Dale...

Fallout and Fallout 2 were worthy games from Black Isle as well.

Tried the cameleon spell? If he doesn't see you he won't attack, I assume.